Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

[white exec]

Only old ones. Usually very old, and without rear-end badging. And in black.
Or else it's an Audi. Also black. Also aggressively driven. By someone sitting in what appears to be a deck-chair.

[Timmo]

With a 'snap back' baseball cap on slightly wonky

[CitroJim]

Only old ones. Usually very old, and without rear-end badging. And in black.
Or else it's an Audi. Also black. Also aggressively driven. By someone sitting in what appears to be a deck-chair.

Yes, a very accurate observation Chris

The aggressive nature of their driving and general behaviours is quite horrid...

With a 'snap back' baseball cap on slightly wonky

Naturally, it's all part of the uniform... They have to be able to readily identify each other so they can wave their fists and snarl at each other when they meet...

[Hell Razor5543]

I recently saw BMWs, Audis and Mercs using their indicators. It was between the middle of December and the first week of January. I think they thought that indicator usage was a Seasonal thing.

[CitroJim]

I recently saw BMWs, Audis and Mercs using their indicators. It was between the middle of December and the first week of January. I think they thought that indicator usage was a Seasonal thing.

Their version of peace and goodwill to all perhaps

[GiveMeABreak]

So the C3 was having its MOT today - (passed with advisory on the rear Bump Stop - one was missing so they will be done on Monday). We left it with our local dealer for the Pre-MOT and then it gets done next door at ATS.

We got dropped off into town in one of their C-Zero all electric cars. Obviously very quiet, so one really needs the stereo blasting out with the windows down to let people know your coming. I asked the chap driving it what he thought of it and he wasn't that keen on it - needs a new battery every 4 years and that can be in the region of £4000 - so I guess you have to equate that with the cost of running a petrol / diesel vehicle. He said they have to leave it on charge overnight - every night, and that they only use it for local trips.

So no good for us country folk.

[van ordinaire]

But we went through all this over 100 years ago when all methods of propulsion were on an equal, if uncertain, footing - & electric (& steam) cars fell by the wayside.

No 4 year old electric car will be worth £4,000 nor, as I understand it, is there any lawful way of disposing of the old batteries - yet the environmentalists love them.

Thinking of compulsory electic cars & country folk - some don't even have (mains) electricity so you hav ethe supreme irony of running an diesel generator to charge an electric car - in the interests of reducing emissions.

[Mandrake]

We got dropped off into town in one of their C-Zero all electric cars. Obviously very quiet, so one really needs the stereo blasting out with the windows down to let people know your coming. I asked the chap driving it what he thought of it and he wasn't that keen on it - needs a new battery every 4 years and that can be in the region of £4000 - so I guess you have to equate that with the cost of running a petrol / diesel vehicle.

A new battery every 4 years ?

Sorry but that guy is just talking a load of nonsense... I wonder what he's smoking...

My Ion has a build date of 15 February 2011, which makes it almost 7 years old and the battery is absolutely fine. Still at about 86% of new capacity. I've never heard of anyone having to replace the traction battery at 4 years in any EV let alone an Ion/C-Zero. (In fact faulty traction batteries are exceptionally rare)

And a new battery doesn't cost £4000 by the way - retail price on service citroen is over £13,000

He said they have to leave it on charge overnight - every night, and that they only use it for local trips.

So no good for us country folk.

Of course they only use it for local trips, it only has a range of 60 miles. Overnight charging at home is normal for all EV's. You can rapid charge at a rapid DC charger on most though - I can charge my Ion to 80% in about 20 minutes on a rapid charger.

The C-Zero/Ion has the shortest range of pretty much any EV you can buy, so anything else is going to have a much larger range. It was only ever designed to be a city runabout, not a country car.

Sorry but it sounds like the guy is pretty ignorant of electric cars if he thinks the battery has to be replaced every 4 years...

[GiveMeABreak]

Hmmm... I'm no expert on these vehicles, but why does the traction battery on the C Zero (Part 16 098 575 80) cost over £16,000.00? Or am I missing something?

[Timmo]

May be it is filled with unobtainium and built into a special Carbotainium case?

[GiveMeABreak]

Indeed!

I saw on one forum some chap asking about how much a new battery cost - and the only reply was "look for second hand car"!

[Mandrake]

Hmmm... I'm no expert on these vehicles, but why does the traction battery on the C Zero (Part 16 098 575 80) cost over £16,000.00? Or am I missing something?

C Zero Battery.PNG

In a nutshell they're expensive because batteries were really expensive in 2011 and the car originally sold for £28,000 because of it. And of course PSA still charge the same list price for a replacement battery despite the intervening 7 years where battery prices have plummeted.

It's just a relic of how stupidly expensive Lithium Ion car batteries were back when the car was first made. They're certainly not worth that now!

And I can pretty much guarantee nobody ever paid list price to replace one out of warranty! (They either scrapped the car or found a wreck to get parts from)

With today's battery tech people like Tesla are claiming to have brought the cost of batteries down to $125 / kWh and still falling - so the 16kWh pack in the Ion would cost $2000 US by those figures...

[GiveMeABreak]

Throw away lighters, throw away cameras, throw away cars

[van ordinaire]

Yup - & all in the interests of the environment!

[Mandrake]

Throw away lighters, throw away cameras, throw away cars

How is it throw away ?

Traction battery failure of EV's is exceptionally rare, especially out of warranty as a battery with a defect is likely to fail within warranty when the battery warranty on most EV's is 5 to 8 years. (Mine is 7 years old and still in warranty!)

What do you do with an 8+ year old ICE that isn't worth much if the motor has a catastrophic failure like conrods out the side of the block ? Write it off because the book price of a brand new engine from the manufacturer is three times more than the car is worth ?

Maybe... or you get hold of a second hand engine and put it in! Same if you had a failure of a cell in a traction battery pack - you don't just replace the whole thing at book price, you would go looking for second hand cells and replace the individual faulty cell and the car is back on the road again.

No more throw away than an ICE with a catastrophic engine failure.

I think you guys are reading and listening to too much of the ill-informed anti-EV propaganda that is out there.

Your chap at Citroen/Peugeot that told you the batteries have to be replaced every 4 years has a vested interest in talking down EV's. Dealers don't like them because they don't break down and they don't make much money "servicing" them as there is almost nothing to do in a service! Of course they're not going to like them. How he can say with a straight face that they need the battery replaced every 4 years when PSA's battery warranty for the C-Zero and Ion is 8 years is beyond me.

That's a hell of a lot of in-warranty battery replacements (100% replaced!) if that were even remotely true.