Travels & travails with a C15 (& other vehicles)

[van ordinaire]

1st I'm going to check what I used when I changed the oil - & topped it up with after the last driveshaft change, then I'll see what's available at Mole Valley Farmers (which does oils in bulk @ great prices - yes, yes, I know I only need 2 litres!) & the factors opposite. Failing that I'll use Richard's link to Nielsen's as, apart from the price advantage, it's the real possibility that Comma 75/80 is GL5 that's putting me - but that is without actually reading the packaging!

As some of you may recall, I'm off GSF - which is not to say I'll not use their website for "research" This reg. recognition thing is not foolproof, e.g. carparts4less correctly identify the Cadillac - but still list the wrong oil filter (2 different ones in fact). However, it cuts both ways, e.g. the place I got my driveshafts don't list them for the C15 - but do for Pug 205!

Zel, re topping up the Lada's steering box - I'm told by one I'm inclined to believe, that Lucas Oil's stop leak product actually works but is the only one that does. He suggested it to me, when i asked him about swapping the box on latest Cherokee, which leaks round the Pitman arm.

Now, real reason I logged on here tonight (only to find I seem to have started something): took C15 for a short drive earlier this evening & that really very slight adjustment has vastly improved matters but needs a little "fine tuning". That will have to wait 'til next week now & I'll bring a couple of suitable open enders back with me on Sunday, as doing the job with a longish, cranked ring & a pair of needle nose pliers was a bit of a pain. (only had the 2CV tools, essentially the greatest selection of 11mm spanners any one person had to hand, + what I could find inthe house)

[CitroJim]

I think a lot have updated the databases "recently" as it was most common an issue shortly after I picked the car up, seemed to be random as to whether it was a problem.

Be interesting to see if Davie's Activa still has the problem - that one often came up as a 2.0 non-turbo Xantia...

[van ordinaire]

I know I composed a response last night, & thought (assumed?) I'd posted it, but when I logged on earlier – rien!

So, here we go again:-
not knowing how these things work, I've never really been sure if each vendor has its own data base linked to their site. When I was looking for a clutch in the week, one site couldn't identify the reg. no: Another time a site's correctly identified the vehicle from a no: that only recently been assigned to it – which made me wonder if, in fact, they can access the DVLA database, although my most recent experience suggests otherwise. On the other hand, I have known the DVLA site claim it can't trace the vehicle – a real pain when you're trying to tax it!

Anyway, to matters of moment: it seems that when I changed the gearbox oil I refilled it with 80/90 – but at least it was GL4! However, when I topped it up after the new driveshaft a couple of weeks ago – it was GL5 80/90 (maybe 1/2-litre). Now the clutch started playing up (as I thought) within 250 miles – is the 'box really THAT sensitive? (I can't remember how long after the oil change I had to adjust the clutch – but it was over a year & a good few 1,000 miles AND it was after the pedalbox was changed, after which the clutch pedal was never in the right place, i.e. at the right height).
Can't get the right oil at either of the places I'd hoped, so will order some on-line from Nielsen's, although there's no great hurry as I doubt it'll do more'n 10 miles before coming back down to Devon on Maundy Thurrsday; meanwhile I might get the chance to check if my local parts & accessories emporium has the right oil (not been in there for years, but if he recognises/remembers me, I should get a discount).

Took the current Cherokee out for its regular Saturday morning run out over the Moor & back via Lidl's in Paignton to some shopping. It's the only branch I know with no car park (nor any concession in the adjacent multi-storey) & parking was a real pain – reminded me that it'll soon be May, when the seasonal parking restrictions kick in AND the place starts filling up with grockels!
When I got back (somewhat bizarely, prompted by a post on a Cherokee forum) I fixed the underbonnet light - by the simple expedient of fitting a bulb! (it was at about this point, much earlier today, that I hit “return” - & the previous 2 paras.disappeared: I slammed the lid on the laptop & went out & fiddled with the Cadillac). Actually, not so simple, it's a weird American fitment which was a fiddle, even though I've done it before ('though not in situe on a Cherokee), even managed to blow the fuse – so stupid,why didn't I unplug it? Fortunately, it was the 1st fuse I checked. So that's another (very) minor job that needed doing when I got it done.

As a preliminary to fitting the new rad. in the Caddy I started cleaning up the 6 (yup, count 'em) brake pipes that go across the front of the car (although I'm sure you can't see them when the rad's in & the undertray's in place.). Gave me a chance to look at the alternator, won't say examine, 'cos could barely identify it under a coating of filth that reminded me of that sort of black “moss” you used to see in railway tunnels. Except this is the metaflake version, at least beneath the alternator it is, where little specks of copper glisten in the grime. It seems I might have to fit the new one after all (it was £400, but when I was quoted as much again to fit it - & the car was only £600 – I didn't bother). Must admit I'm now in even more of a quandry than ever – but that's for another forum (literally & figuratively). For now, it's find some rust treatment to slop on those brake pipes!

[white exec]

If you get fed up chasing around for the correct gear oil, just call in at a Citroen/Peugeot parts counter. Total 75W/80 Transmission 8 (GL4) is what they use.
My own Citroen workshop here just decanted 3 litres for me from their 200-litre Trans 8 drum.

[van ordinaire]

Thanks for that, it's another option I'll bear in mind, although logistically it'd be tricky. Pretty well decided to get it on line, just curious what my local shop's got as I've not set foot in it for so long, but, again it's getting there (I mean, when it's open) that's the problem.

[van ordinaire]

So, finally got round to reading-up on changing the clutch in the C15 manual (not significantly different from what I'd gleaned from the ZX one); doesn't look too bad - although removing the battery tray might add another dimension (& several hours) . Had that in mind ever since removing the battery to adjust clutch the first time, as a non-urgent job is remove it, treat rust, paint & replace it - before it does a Mk3 Escort on me! On other hand, Cherokee one is a similar install, although plastic, & that - to my surprise - wasn't a problem.

En passant - Haynes (or, rather Duckams) specifies GL5 gear oil!

Oh, & the wiper I fitted on Cherokee (last w/e?) tried to escape on Saturday. Fortunately it wasn't raining, just trying to clear the aftermath of a S. Devon muddy puddle, i.e. a thin film of something resembling nothing so much as dilute tomato soup!

[CitroJim]

En passant - Haynes (or, rather Duckams) specifies GL5 gear oil!

We don't call it the BoL (Book of Lies) on here for nothing you know

[RichardW]

Interesting read here: http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf

[white exec]

That is an extremely detailed amd interesting article, Richard.
It details the damage that can be done to brass synchromesh components by inadvertently using GL-5 oils, and the gear engagement problems of 75W-90 oils where 75W-80 would be more appropriate.

[van ordinaire]

& written by someone wo knew his stuff but in terms most would understand - perhaps becuse of its limited & rather specialist target audience.
Loved that Knee-san (no, really, that is what they say!) warning: want a "Do not use GL5, it WILL destroy your transmission" sticker.

Now realise that GL4 - or 5, as the case may be, IS writ large on oild containers. S'pose, 'cos I didn't know its significance, I didn't even see it. I will be curious when next in America, to see what choice of hypoids there is, given how limited it is here.

Jim, the trick I found with Haynes was always to adopt a certain approach, & a healthy degree of cynicism, because of the need to establish/recognise what was helpful - & I never paid much heed to recommended, plug, lubricants, etc because they were always their sponsors' products.

[CitroJim]

Jim, the trick I found with Haynes was always to adopt a certain approach, & a healthy degree of cynicism, because of the need to establish/recognise what was helpful - & I never paid much heed to recommended, plug, lubricants, etc because they were always their sponsors' products.

That is one very good approach towards the BoL...

I've always ignored their product recommendations too... For the same reason.

[white exec]

I think we've all learned a lot from this GL-4/GL-5 issue. I certainly have, having inadvertently filled our XM 'box with GL-5 last year. A bit of recent googling on the spec threw up several cautionary paragraphs, the first the Wikipedia one.

Many adverts and stockists don't even state which GL- spec their 75W/80 or /90 is, which isn't helpful. Some service data similarly unhelpful. Worth recalling the advice that a product marked as 'suitable for both' means it's GL-5.

[CitroJim]

It certainly has been a most educational run through gear oils Thanks all!

Worth recalling the advice that a product marked as 'suitable for both' means it's GL-5.

This is very similar to the situation regarding Dexron ATFs and the suitability of later versions for use in gearboxes (particularly the HP14 and 18) designed for mineral Dexron II - Although Dexron III and above are supposedly backwardly compatible in practice they do not suit the older 'boxes..

Another allied area is with autoboxes that specify LT71141 ATF (4HP20 and the like). Many late synthetic Dexron products claim compatibility with LT71141 but in practice and reality they are not.

We had a very long discussion about it on here a few years back. Anyone interested to review it is encouraged to dig the old thread up and have a good illuminating read...

[Zelandeth]

Interesting read here: http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf

Thanks for posting that, really useful to know *why* GL5 can kill a GL4 requiring box. I will drop a link to that over on the Lada forums as well I think as it's an off discussed topic over there.

Guess the take home point is that GL5 isn't better than or a successor to GL4, rather is a totally different thing!

...Bit like the mayhem they caused when they brought out DOT5 brake fluid and people kept wondering why they suddenly had no brakes...

[van ordinaire]

Well one thing's for sure, I could never have foreseen this development of my somewhat impetuous decision to start a blog, which I really thought might be of limited interest to anyone.

I now realise that because GL Nos: meant nothing to me, I didn't even see them - until I was forced to look! The flipside, I suppose, of tending to see what you want to see. However, I have learned something more basic on this subject: there's more than one multigrade hypoid - although I doubt we'll often be offered a choice anywhere. I'd just assumed that that 80/90 replaced 80 and 90 (by which time 140 had all but disappeared); I had no knowledge of 75/80 [although I really should've spotted it in the handbook - on the other hand, how many old(er) vehicles come with handbooks?]. Wasn't life so much simpler when you put 80 in the 'box & 90 in the diff

I recall being bemused by "classic 20/50" - dismissing it as sales hype, not then aware of "backward compatibility" - but then didn't we all assume that, as oil technology advanced, each new spec. was better? After all that's the modern way, advertising/hype driven, have to have the latest which, by definition, is the best. It followed that an old car would, somehow, be improved by using the latest lubricants - until we learned that the later oils were developed to meet different engine design criteria. Only now do I know that gear/transmission* oils had followed a similar development course.

*even THAT was was a distinction without difference