Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i, GTi180 plus XUD9TE 206!!

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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ekjdm14
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Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi and now, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Not a bad thing at all, that's the main reason for posting these things here. Partly to vent, partly to seek advice but mainly because I hope it's of interest/inspiration to others. :)

Certainly been a strange year, fingers crossed 2020 is much much more like things should be!
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van ordinaire
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Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi and now, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i...

Post by van ordinaire »

I'm not usually pessimistic (much less depressive) BUT I've already got 2020 down as the worst for many a long year BUT, of course, that's my 2020 - & bad years are very personal (as, naturally, are good ones). However, I'll try not to clench my teeth/grimace/bite their head off when people cheerfully (& quite innocently) utter the traditional salutation, which I will, quite genuinely, reciprocate.
ekjdm14
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Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi and now, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Wow Van, dare I ask why this is going to be such a trying year for you? :? Here's hoping it works out substantially better than expected.

Finally managed to get a couple of photos of some progress this evening, knocked off just after dark and have now got the replacement quarter panel, lamp recess & inner arch support off the donor car. Fortunately most of the panel bonding/seam sealer had gone quite brittle & with the spot welds drilled and slices through the sill and door shut it came off reasonably easily with just a couple of small marks where the bonding was still sticky. Should be a bit quicker removing the crocked panel as I don't have to worry about ruining it as it's already mashed!
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moizeau
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Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi and now, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i...

Post by moizeau »

Cracking job there, I know from working at Toyota in the weld shop how hard that is. Will you puddle weld the panel back on? If you get blow holes use a piece of copper at the the back.
Impressed.
ekjdm14
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Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi and now, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Yes it was quite "interesting" to remove the panel without trying to damage it. The only real pain was where the quarter is sandwiched at the roofline between the roof skin and the bodyshell proper, that'll be tricky to get without mauling the roof on the '06 car (I just sliced a convenient hole in the donor's roof).

I'll be plug welding it back on at the original spot weld holes, thanks for the tip about copper behind if I blow through, I can see me needing that one lol my skills are a bit rusty. (when I remove the damaged panel I'm planning to slice it off with the grinder and then obliterate the flange left behind with flap disc to leave as much "meat" as possible to reattach). Where the join will be visible above and below the door I'm contemplating either joggling and lap jointing or trying to be flash and butt welding (possibly with a tacked on fishplate behind to help with blowing through). I have a feeling the roof/gutter line joint will have to be lap or butt jointed too with a section of the original panel left behind so I don't have to get into the roof at all. Obviously the roof skin seems to have been the final piece in the puzzle as far as factory shell assembly went, but at least that can be hidden by the gutter rail trim so the only bits I have to get "just so" are the couple of inches above the door and the sill below.

Will have to wait on funds now though as I need sikaflex, shutz, flux cored wire and a new welding helmet as my old one got smashed. Probably go with an auto-darkening one this time as that'll be so much easier. Probably be well into next week before I get as far as reattaching bits.
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moizeau
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Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi and now, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i...

Post by moizeau »

Good luck, I'm sure you know this but use a lot of mole grips and make sure there isn't an air gap between the panels when you puddle weld, that's a hole for sure. Also don't weld in a line, split the puddles up into equal distances, like doing a head gasket.
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Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur
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Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi and now, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i...

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

That’s a big old bit of welding there ekjdm, will watch with interest.

If you’ve not got any copper as a Heat-Sink, which is a damn useful tool to have; Aluminium works just the same and is potentially cheaper. Mine originated from a domestic Shower cubicle and I’ve plenty, so if you want some, you’re welcome.

Something I hadn’t realised until recently regarding drilling Spot Welds, which will be more applicable on the repair car, is that you don’t have to go all the way through. If you also hadn’t realised, these Screenshots I’d saved for myself in the course of watching Pete C on Youtube "Cortina City" will potentially be useful.
Drill Only One Side of Spot Welds.JPG
Spot Weld Drilling When to Stop.JPG
I’ve always used a cheap Spot Weld Drill Bit from eBay (about £1.50 each IIRC) and found it to be fine; with a drop of cheap 20W-50 to keep it cool.

Do you have a joggling tool? If you don’t, I suggest you don’t waste your money buying one; I was deeply unimpressed with mine and promptly sold it. I’d favour the fish-plate method, which can be temporarily bolted or riveted in position; I like to use bolts rather than rivets, coz you can make the bolt captive and pull em tight (the bolt remains in the panel forever, just grind the nut off flush when you're done).
ekjdm14
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Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi and now, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Yeh I'd bought a couple of cheap cobalt-tipped spot weld drills in anticipation of the job, they work really well. I wasn't bothered about going all the way through on the parts car as it's not going back together but I am being a bit more subtle with the one to be repaired.

Got a bit done earlier (just knocked off now), stripped the interior back and did a rough cut of the damaged panel to get the bulk out of the way & so far have removed the spot welds from the side window surround, lamp housing, back of the "C-pillar" and strengthening panel, only went right through a couple of times by accident! Then moved onto reshaping the tailgate aperture and straightening the hinges so it now shuts nicely and lines up well. Think I will butt weld the joins with a fish plate as joggling would be impractical given the curvature anyway now I think about it. Can't do a lot more until welding supplies come in but will try and have the car and panels ready to be mated together when it all arrives.

Have to say, it's not as godawful bad as I had imagined so far (definitely not a body man!!!) and it's just like a big 3D jigsaw in the main. I'm thinking with the roof join, I'll leave a flange of the original quarter sticking up in the gutter trim area & kinda "hook" the replacement over that & plug weld there so I don't have to disturb the join between roof skin and main shell. Anyway, time for dinner I'm starving!
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Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur
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Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi and now, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i...

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

sounds like a good plan to me. I've yet to try the 'only going through one skin' idea with a spot weld remover, but that day's probably coming soon.

Oddly enough I've been metal-working today also; on a much smaller scale, continuing with the 'Adaptor bracket' for the Coolant Header Tank, its a time-consuming process with templating, cleaning, cutting, marking, bending, etc, etc..

I saw a clever way of making butt-welded panels just right somewhere; it basically involved placing the new panel carefully over the old and slicing through both simultaneously with a 1mm slitting disc.
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Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur
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Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi and now, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i...

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

just thought, be easy to demonstrate my idea.
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ekjdm14
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Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi and now, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i...

Post by ekjdm14 »

I saw that somewhere myself & might try that, although not sure if I can line it up well enough with the overlap. Hope your day was as productive as mine turned out, wasn't really expecting to have the quarter off today much less have the tailgate aperture/hinges un-tweeked!

I did think about doing like you've suggested but that introduces another, much longer, section that I have to get perfectly smooth. That was the main reason behind my decision to go to the roofline, so I can hide the join as much as possible.

Can you tell I don't trust my bodywork skills? :rofl2: Also, I think there was a bit of a ripple in the panel near the top.
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Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur
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Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi and now, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i...

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

ekjdm14 wrote:
04 Jan 2020, 19:36
...hope your day was as productive as mine turned out...
Can you tell I don't trust my bodywork skills? :rofl2:
No, I think you did a lot better than I did, but I was satisfied with my day too. I think you trust your bodywork sills about the same as I trust mine! :-D
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van ordinaire
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Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi and now, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i...

Post by van ordinaire »

ekjdm14 wrote:
03 Jan 2020, 18:55
Wow Van, dare I ask why this is going to be such a trying year for you? :? Here's hoping it works out substantially better than expected.
Well, since you asked: there's the small matter of the C15 stuck lifeless out in the street, I've not the slightest idea what to do about it - but it can only stay there 'til the end of Feb.

The Xantia's big problem turned out to be no big deal after all (a good omen on New Year's Day!?) but what I thought was almost a routine job, replacing the front brake flexis, has proved impossible.

The Eldorado's awaiting being nursed up to Stockport for some serious engine work - if only I ever had the opportunity to book it in (or when I did, remembered to make the call) it's been over a year AND now a call to Medway Citroën has to take precedence!

I had hoped that this would be the year the green Cherokee got the trans out the donor but that's now complicated by 1st having to remove the transfer box, to put in the red one (it's complicated because it seems while the whole trans from a '96 can go in a '97, the transfer box won't fit a '99 - whereas a '97 will).

Because of a bad experience there last year, decided to give Retromobile a miss - now have had to write off Maastricht Classic, as the cost of fuel to go in the Cherokee would be better spent on, say, an engine for the C15.

Don't really want to think ahead as far as March, as it's not that many weekends away - & past the deadline for sorting the C15 (or the Xantia, so the C15 can go back on the drive).

Well, like I said, you DID ask. Who said "The impossible we do immediately, miracles take a little longer"?
ekjdm14
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Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi and now, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i...

Post by ekjdm14 »

van ordinaire wrote:
06 Jan 2020, 21:19
Well, like I said, you DID ask. Who said "The impossible we do immediately, miracles take a little longer"?
Wow yes that's not the greatest of outlooks is it? Whoever came up with that quote was on the money for us French car nuts, currently 3/4 the way through rebuilding the written off 1.4i and just about to set off to collect a sight-unseen £350 GTi180 from Lincolnshire, on a school night, with a stomach bug and still to shift the parts car so we have space to put it! :rofl2:

I've not had a chance to read your blog so hadn't heard about the C15 issues, will have to try and have a scan through but is the engine ruined? :?
ekjdm14
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Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi and now, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Aaaand some 8 hours later we are home, in our slightly dogeared and dirty 206 GTi180 complete with black painted wheels, awful gear knob that looks like an "adult" toy, pigeon-toed rear beam, couple of stickers and loud exhaust that also clonks on the tunnel now & again.

First impressions are well and truly worth the money, especially for a car with 5 months ticket, half decent tyres and capable of making a 125mile drive at short notice. I get the feeling the guy was happy enough with the price, and being able/willing to do the jobs it needs myself, we're more than happy with £350 given what half decent ones are going for. There's a bit of history and paperwork with it so off to peruse that while I drift off to sleep hopefully to wake at 7:40 for school run! 8-)

Glad the parts car is still around though, couple of little niggly bits like boot release lever/gear knob & gaiter etc needed off that before it wends it's merry way.