Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i, GTi180 plus XUD9TE 206!!

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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ekjdm14
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Camshaft? No, conrod failure... Le moteur est mort...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Ahh. :( Any day in an office would be hell for me, i much prefer manual labour lol, hope things get better for you this afternoon, heck even the weather seems to be calming down up this way!!!

Just typical though that since I've got the broken Xantia (and in so doing, worn away any remaining sympathy towards my projects from the missus!) not one, but two potential sources of parts to get the thing running again have popped up in the for sale area... I was considering using parts from the other blown up 1.9D to make one good from two bad with minimal outlay on parts, and then even better up pops poor "reanimation's" 1.9D complete car for a very tempting price and not a million miles away as well...

I'd have jumped on that if the better half was of a more understanding mindset... Can't really blame her, but oh the irony of the timing :( lol

ekjdm14
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... sump off, photos to follow

Post by ekjdm14 »

Finished removing the sump just minutes ago, it's a mess in there... Crank journal is damaged so time for a replacement is the verdict barring miracles.

Not sure how it could've died quietly though given the fact the big end cap has come loose before escaping from the rod (one stud is sheared, one intact, BOTH nuts undone and sat in the sump). The only way I know for a correctly torqued bearing cap to unscrew itself is if the big end had been knocking like a rattle gun for some time prior to death.

Any other suggestions how it could have managed to loosen the nuts I'd love to hear them, as I'm honestly stumped how it could have happened otherwise. I'll post photos up when I get a moment, domestic duties call for now (only the washing up sadly, nothing more exciting lol!)

ekjdm14
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Sump off, crank damaged, time for a new engine...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Time for some sickening pictures... In the two close up shots of the big end, I think it looks like it's got rather warm. I suppose there's a possibility that the scored cam bearings caused low oil pressure and #1 big end was the first to suffer, the other 3 feel OK but I might pop the caps off for a look at the shells at some point. One thing is beyond doubt though. Le moteur est mort. Very, very mort!
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RichardW
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Sump off, photos, carnage.

Post by RichardW »

That's impressively buggered!!

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yannbeam
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Sump off, photos, carnage.

Post by yannbeam »

Most of the conrod failures I've experienced with the race engines are due to the bolts stretching. But thats usually at silly RPM. I dought a 1.9D would rev that high ? Looking at those pics I would have thought that would have gone with a bang!

Stewart(oily)
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Sump off, photos, carnage.

Post by Stewart(oily) »

Impressive carnage! The TD I replaced would not allow the piston to come out of the bore, and the rod had punched through the block back and front, a mystery to be sure.

ekjdm14
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Sump off, photos, carnage.

Post by ekjdm14 »

yannbeam wrote:Most of the conrod failures I've experienced with the race engines are due to the bolts stretching. But thats usually at silly RPM. I dought a 1.9D would rev that high ? Looking at those pics I would have thought that would have gone with a bang!
I did wonder if it had managed to over rev somehow, as that would tend to explain the imprints of the inlet valves on the pistons too if it bounced the valves (or even stretched the rods/bolts). Being an auto though a fluffed shift at speed seems unlikely, and the general condition of the rest of the engine would tend to rule out a runaway. I guess that leaves the pump potentially being tweaked with and allowing it to eat itself at MoT time, but I would imagine that to be less likely on a non-turbo...

Something strange going on for sure, maybe we shall never get to the bottom of the actual cause of failure. Suffice to say, the engine is pretty well scrap. The rest of the car however does warrant a replacement as it's in really nice shape, strut tops are great (plenty good enough to clean up and rustproof certainly) bodywork is pretty much straight with just a couple of small rust spots on the bonnet and the left jamb is bubbly and paintwork is decent enough too. Inside there's the stuck but leak free sunroof, column cases are a little loose as are the stalks and drivers height adjustment is loose. Otherwise though, I can't fault it at all and know it'll come up nicely.

Just got to sort an engine now lol...

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CitroJim
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Sump off, photos, carnage.

Post by CitroJim »

Gosh, as Richards says! It is indeed impressively buggered :lol:

Wonder if it suffered a runaway at some point in its life and this is a delayed failure? Nuts would come loose after the big end broke as there's nothing then to keep them tight...

My take may be that it was either a spun shell causing oil starvation to that big end or a blockage in the oil drilling to that big end - it could even have been a bit of swarf from when the crank was manufactured...

One thing for sure, it as not the rod that gave way.

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Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Sump off, photos, carnage.

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

ekjdm14 wrote:
yannbeam wrote:Just got to sort an engine now lol...
last time I looked, a year or two back, these were plentiful and prices reflected that. But if the situation's changed and you struggle, I have a contact who I'm sure has got several.

I might even let one of mine go, though one's 275k, runs beautifully but severely failed head gasket (have video) and the others 195k, suspected good, but never ran it so can't be sure.

ekjdm14
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Sump off, photos, carnage.

Post by ekjdm14 »

Yes, I am hoping the supply hasn't yet dried up although the vast majority remaining seem to be TD's and I would like to keep it unmodified if only for insurance's sake not to mention the whole "wafty, relaxing drive" ethos of an auto/NA Xantia.

Whereabouts are you located, as I may find myself in need of your help should a trawl of my known potential sources not be a fruitful one.

ekjdm14
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Sump off, photos, carnage.

Post by ekjdm14 »

Further to the discussion between Jim & I on this thread-: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=57147&start=15 I thought I'd post back here rather than even further derail the wanted ad (and by way of apology if anyone has a decent 1.9TD with fully mechanical Bosch pump for sale I believe the OP, Lankytim, may still need one).

OK, so in response to...
CitroJim wrote:I'd do both, Araldite and a jubilee-clipped shell...

I await the result with great interest!
As do I. It'll be fun, if nothing else, to create a "new" 1428cc 3-pot lump. If it runs I shall name it the XUD4-DM :rofl2: I'm also keen to observe the effects of re-using the head gasket and cambelt amongst other things, as well as how long (if at all) the unsupported 1/3rd of the camshaft lasts, from the centre bearing to cylinder #2 will effectively be an "outrigger".

As well as being an interesting way to kill an afternoon or two, building and (with some luck) running the engine like this, it would also help me to test and evaluate things like the hydraulics, transmission, pump etc and possibly even get more of an insight into what killed the engine originally (if it runs away due to a pump problem, for instance, then I haven't lost anything & maybe saved a replacement from damage too).

I'll be sure to post a video or two if my FrankenXUD shows signs of life, maybe within the next week all being well. Mind your ears, I bet it'll clatter like a brick in a washer on spin cycle! :rofl2:

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CitroJim
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Sump off, photos, carnage.

Post by CitroJim »

ekjdm14 wrote: If it runs I shall name it the XUD4-DM :rofl2:
I like it!!!

One thing that's occurred to me is the 'unused' injection pump HP delivery. You can't have it spraying into nothing and you cannot just blank it off either as the pressure will blow off what ever you try to use or worse, fracture the distributor with quite alarming consequences.

As a test, I'd return the 'unused' port back to the fuel tank return via a large-bore pipe and some kind of vessel akin to a reverse pressure vessel to allow the high pressure of delivery to dissipate before returning it to the fuel tank

ekjdm14
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Sump off, photos, carnage.

Post by ekjdm14 »

To be honest, for how long I expect/plan the engine to run I'm not at all worried about the effects of the diesel diluting the oil down. (is there any other reason for not having the "dead" injector spraying to nowhere?) I will however be disconnecting the glow plug from the "missing" cylinder to avoid any hazard there.

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CitroJim
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Sump off, photos, carnage.

Post by CitroJim »

ekjdm14 wrote:is there any other reason for not having the "dead" injector spraying to nowhere?
The sheer quantity of it may surprise you, even from a short period of running...

ekjdm14
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Sump off, photos, carnage.

Post by ekjdm14 »

Interesting, my rough guesstimate had it at around half to 3 quarters of a litre tops if I ran the engine for around an hour (based on XUD's roughly average consumption of 50mpg, / by 4 and rough average speeds on todays roads around 25mph thereby giving an even rougher guesstimate of XUD's consumption being in the region of 2.2 litres per hour / by 4 and add a little for the reduction in efficiency)

For my purposes I'm not really planning nor expecting this cobbled together arrangement to run for anywhere near an hour, and on a scrap bottom end I don't really care if there was a litre of diesel in the sump oil. That said, you've got me wondering now if there's a fatal flaw in my calculations? Perhaps centred around the engine mainly running at idle/light load?

May get a chance to have a short play later if the weather holds off so will throw as much of it together as I can & see where we get. (should be quicker than a normal reassembly, owing to my lack of concern for the longevity of the thing lol. The odd bolt can be omitted here and there, torques will be "fairly tight" to "tight" & if I pay any mind at all to cooling it'll likely be a total loss system via the hosepipe)