Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i, GTi180 plus XUD9TE 206!!

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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ekjdm14
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Camshaft? No, conrod failure... Le moteur est mort...

Post by ekjdm14 »

I hold vainly onto that hope, Xantia V6... And I agree Jim, I think the piston crown hit the valve, thus snapping the cam & causing the engine to fail.

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CitroJim
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Camshaft? No, conrod failure... Le moteur est mort...

Post by CitroJim »

xantia_v6 wrote:I have seen an (old) ford engine that looked like that, and the only bottom end damage was a broken piston with a detached crown. The rest of the piston and rings were still happily traversing up and down the bore.
:D That's got me thinking again..

Now given the construction of diesel pistons, there's a chance that may have happened here... I'm not sure which one it is but I believe one or more of the XUD family may have steel piston crowns on aluminium skirts...

In such a piston there is a good opportunity for such a failure to happen.

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Camshaft? No, conrod failure... Le moteur est mort...

Post by ekjdm14 »

I do hope so Jim... Just a quick addition/correction. In my tiredness I stated emphatically that it was the inlet valves that had hit the pistons but now I've rested a while and look again it's quite obviously the EXHAUST valves that have clashed with the pistons. And looking at the valves in the head, they do seem a little bit clean even for running on veg...

So, as seller noted, cam timing probably has slipped initially, pistons mated with exhaust valves, very shortly after this the piston or rod on #1 failed also, the piston flew up and snapped the camshaft & the engine stopped...

Got to take the kids out so no "playtime" that I can forsee today, but when time allows I will be ascertaining exactly what has broken downstairs and posting back. I'll try and have a look what construction the pistons are too, be nice if it is that simple.

ekjdm14
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Camshaft? No, conrod failure... Le moteur est mort...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Oh, this still leaves me with a question... If (as?) none of the actual inlet valves have hit pistons, why is one lifter sat lower than the rest? (not lost a shim)

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Camshaft? No, conrod failure... Le moteur est mort...

Post by CitroJim »

ekjdm14 wrote:Oh, this still leaves me with a question... If (as?) none of the actual inlet valves have hit pistons, why is one lifter sat lower than the rest? (not lost a shim)
I'll ponder that next time I go out for a run ;) To be honest I can't work that one out just yet...

You may need to remove the valve and bucket to answer that question...

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Camshaft? No, conrod failure... Le moteur est mort...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Yes that is hopefully possible this afternoon so will update later. Hope it's nothing too bad as I'm in two minds as to if the head may be serviceable with a new cam and caps. What are your thoughts on the bearing damage pictures? Thanks

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Camshaft? No, conrod failure... Le moteur est mort...

Post by CitroJim »

That head, based on the bearing journals is verging on borderline. Can we see some higher definition pictures?

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Camshaft? No, conrod failure... Le moteur est mort...

Post by ekjdm14 »

I'll try and get some and post them up, do we have any clearance figures for these? I was thinking if there was, I could cut the undamaged bearing off the wrecked camshaft and then plastigauge the clearances after cleaning up the damage...

Just got back from taking the kids trampolining & it's pretty grim outside so may not be today.

Assuming the valve/guide with strange clearance are OK, the rest of the head is in very nice condition as you'd expect for a sub 100k motor. With a bit of brake cleaner & a toothbrush most of it could pass for new internally, even the valve heads etc.

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Camshaft? No, conrod failure... Le moteur est mort...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Just had a play with the original pics, they seem to have zoomed in alright but will try to get better if need be... My "gut feeling" is that it may just be salvageable, since the really nasty bits of the scoring don't extend the full width of the bearings.

The worst of them is the centre bearing, the far side hasn't suffered quite as badly. [-o< would be nice to save it if possible...
Attachments
this is the worst of the bearing damage
this is the worst of the bearing damage
head1close.jpg

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Camshaft? No, conrod failure... Le moteur est mort...

Post by CitroJim »

I reckon they’ll do another turn with a bit of care. Main thing is they will not cause a serious reduction in oil pressure... The first is a bit marginal in that respect but it might be worth experimentally filling the pits and gouges with chemical metal...

Really it all depends if any damage has occurred to the valve seat or guide on no.4...

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Camshaft? No, conrod failure... Le moteur est mort...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Valve spring off, and valve is firmly seized into the guide. Managed to move it with a hammer but I expect the guide will be toast if the valve has to be drifted out... Looking more and more like a replacement engine may be the best way forward...

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Camshaft? No, conrod failure... Le moteur est mort...

Post by CitroJim »

Yes, given the valve/guide damage, definitely go for a replacement engine... Especially with potential bottom end damage.

An ideal opportunity to put a TD in there now ;)

Arguably, a good TD may well be easier to obtain..

Still interested to see the bottom end ;)

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Camshaft? No, conrod failure... Le moteur est mort...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Oh yes I'll certainly be dropping the sump still. Not sure about going TD as the insurance looks likely to be ridiculous considering it'd be still basically a standard model. Anyone have any suggestions for sympathetic insurers, as a decent TD would likely be easier to find?

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Camshaft? No, conrod failure... Le moteur est mort...

Post by CitroJim »

LV are a good one in my experience...

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Camshaft? No, conrod failure... Le moteur est mort...

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I've tried most of the insurers over the last few years, LV for one year only as they did the 'get em hooked' trick, low price to start and increased the premium by a huge percentage for the renewal.

Currently with Direct Line who have been unbeatable on price, cover and excess amounts, now into my third year.