Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i, GTi180 plus XUD9TE 206!!

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Gibbo2286
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Replacement engine is here!

Post by Gibbo2286 »

If you have a beam to hang it on Lidl had some chain blocks for not much dosh last week, if doing more than one engine lifting job that would be my choice.
ekjdm14
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Replacement engine is here!

Post by ekjdm14 »

Exactly, engine on the floor I can throw a bit of old lino down and easily find any bits I inevitably drop (just took the flywheel off while having my morning smoke & fired the 17mm spanner across the garage as one of the bolts came slack) :D

Just about to dive into the trusty BoL No. 3082 (a free scrapyard find!) and see if there's a chance of leaving the gearbox/driveshafts in-situ and swapping engines without need to drain anything there just yet or split joints. Am I right in thinking separation of the gearbox is as simple as undoing the 3 flex plate bolts and bellhousing bolts then drawing the 2 apart? (aside from perhaps starter removal and other minor bits)

Oh & Gibbo, that would be a good way round it but not sure if there's anything strong enough in the garage roof. May have a check though as I may get a chance to visit lidl today. Thanks for the tip.
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Gibbo2286
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Replacement engine is here!

Post by Gibbo2286 »

ekjdm14 wrote:Exactly, engine on the floor I can throw a bit of old lino down and easily find any bits I inevitably drop (just took the flywheel off while having my morning smoke & fired the 17mm spanner across the garage as one of the bolts came slack) :D

Just about to dive into the trusty BoL No. 3082 (a free scrapyard find!) and see if there's a chance of leaving the gearbox/driveshafts in-situ and swapping engines without need to drain anything there just yet or split joints. Am I right in thinking separation of the gearbox is as simple as undoing the 3 flex plate bolts and bellhousing bolts then drawing the 2 apart? (aside from perhaps starter removal and other minor bits)

Oh & Gibbo, that would be a good way round it but not sure if there's anything strong enough in the garage roof. May have a check though as I may get a chance to visit lidl today. Thanks for the tip.


For years I used a chain block to swap engines, hung on a wooden cross beam but one day I tried to lift the engine and gearbox out of a Hillman Minx and the beam broke depositing the engine and box at the bottom of the workshop pit bellow. :(
ekjdm14
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Replacement engine is here!

Post by ekjdm14 »

Ouch, bet you're glad you weren't in said pit attending to a forgotten wire/hose or suchlike (at least, I sincerely hope you or anybody else weren't in the pit!) was there a lot of damage to the engine/'box? I can imagine a good 6' drop wouldn't do gearbox castings/manifolds etc a deal of good...

BoL tells me I can only remove the engine and gearbox as a unit & then split them, yet also describes how to split and remove the transmission with engine in-situ... I would imagine the reason for that is down to the single point of structural support the gearbox would have if one were to remove the engine but I don't see any real problem in leaving it in place provided I build a nice solid wooden "cradle" kind of support to sit it on while the engine is gone.

Advice from anyone who has either tried/failed or succeeded in removing the engine on it's lonesome would be appreciated, I think it's the way forward though. Thanks in advance :)
elma
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Replacement engine is here!

Post by elma »

Well a clutch can be changed without removing the engine so that infers that you can remove the engine and leave the gearbox in the car.
Having not tried it myself I wouldn't want to say it's possible, just that it sounds plausible.
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CitroJim
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Replacement engine is here!

Post by CitroJim »

I can say certainly that trying to leave the gearbox in-situ will, in the end, be more painful than removing the whole lot in one go. The BE3 is small and light (for a gearbox) so will not pose a big problem...

Also, the engine is designed to balance correctly on its lifting eyes with the gearbox attached...

The additional work of cracking the front suspension off and removing/moving the driveshafts is marginal. You can get away with leaving the RH driveshaft in place but you will need to drive the intermediate bearing out and then it'll push far enough away.

The LH driveshaft does need to be removed but that one is short and easy...

Drain the gearbox oil first ;) Otherwise you'll have a real unholy mess!

Over the years I've found a little bit more work at the outset can make the whole job easier... Trying to work around things that don't really need working around can consume inordinate amounts of time and effort...

I speak as a veteran of many engine and gearbox in-outs and swaps...
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KennyW
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Replacement engine is here!

Post by KennyW »

Can you access some scaffolding poles and brackets and make yourself a hoist. A simple 'A' frame design with a central pole to hold block to raise engine.

'A'' frame either side of engine and pole running over engine compartment.

Kenny
ekjdm14
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Replacement engine is here!

Post by ekjdm14 »

Ah Jim, this is an HP14 though lol... Having looked at the whole lot it probably will be easier to pull it as a unit as you say, although I will have a second look once it's on the driveway.

On that note, she's a heavy old beast, and being auto I can't wind her round on the starter so will have to wait till the better half returns and combine pushing/towing/swearing to manoeuvre her into position on the driveway...More to come, possibly, later on.
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CitroJim
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Replacement engine is here!

Post by CitroJim »

The HP14 is, if anything, smaller than the BE3...

Not as big and as heavy as a V6/HP20 combo and I've done a few of those now... Again, because they balance so well on the lifting eyes it's not a chore at all... And I did them all with a standard one ton crane...

The big problem if you tried to keep the 'box in place is keeping it in place, level and mating it up with the new engine - both aspects would be a bloody nightmare and you'd find the diff would get in the way terribly... And being out of balance on the lifting eyes will make it horrible.

Getting the TC bolted back up to the flex-plate would take a miracle to accomplish I reckon...
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Replacement engine is here!

Post by ekjdm14 »

Yes the more I think about it the better it seems to keep/lift them together, not a huge amount more to dismantle and easier in the long run. It'll also give me an excuse to clean the engine bay properly as well as the engine/box, I never knew the auto was so tiny till I looked properly at it before!
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Replacement engine is here!

Post by ekjdm14 »

Engine crane scheduled for delivery Tues/Weds :) Sadly the 60 quid one has since been removed so I guess the pricing was a mistake given it was the same as the £100 ones on Ebay. Still, not a huge amount to pay for something that ought to make the job a sight easier and more pleasant.

Stuck in with a poorly better half today or we'd be on the N. Wales coast for a walk, may look towards tidying the garage somewhat & maybe a little prep work for when the crane arrives.
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CitroJim
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Replacement engine is here!

Post by CitroJim »

May the better half soon be better [-o<

So, end of next week to see the Xantia back on the road then?

Looking forward to reading of much progress and success...
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Replacement engine is here!

Post by ekjdm14 »

Thanks Jim, I do hope so as it's not nice seeing her in pain & not able to even keep a boiled egg down. Stupid tummy bug :(

With any luck the worst has passed now, and at least we're kid free so less stressful lol. Just doing odds & ends on the Xant' at the moment, got the electrics and hoses freed up & not a huge amount more to finish off under the bonnet, then it'll be up in the air to do the driveshafts.

Am I right in thinking the HP14 takes an unusual/non-standard autobox fluid? I seem to recall reading this somewhere and it's a bit of a pain if it's correct as I have 2+ gallons of Dex II that's been sat in the garage unopened for a couple of years or so! Be good to find out the actual specs so I can order up some of the right stuff for reassembly time...

Whether you're serious about end of next week or not, there may be some danger of it being so depending on weather/opportunity to work. No seized nuts/bolts *so far* to contend with, even the suspect looking battery tray bolts & lower air intake hose nut unscrewed without drama. [crosses fingers] Ancillaries look in decent shape, just need to either convert the Lucas pump to take a kickdown cable or swap over to Bosch injection. Oh, and I forgot I need to order up an Aux belt.

EDIT- Conti aux drivebelt ordered. :)
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CitroJim
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Replacement engine is here!

Post by CitroJim »

Pleased she's on the mend now :)
ekjdm14 wrote: Am I right in thinking the HP14 takes an unusual/non-standard autobox fluid? I seem to recall reading this somewhere and it's a bit of a pain if it's correct as I have 2+ gallons of Dex II that's been sat in the garage unopened for a couple of years or so!


Pukka Dex II (mineral) is the proper and only stuff for an HP14. Never use a Dex II substitute such as Dex II or IV or any ATF that claims backward compatibility - they, as Cpl. Jones used to say, don't like it up 'em...

I suggested next week as I know what you're like when you get the bit between your teeth and get stuck in ;)

All the very best of success with it.... As I say, I'm anxious for news....
ekjdm14
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Replacement engine is here!

Post by ekjdm14 »

Oh fantastic news (for my wallet!), I will double check it is definitely Dex II. I'm guessing it will be since it was bought specifically for a fluid change in the XM and I believe the HP18 also specifies the same fluid.

Oh yes, the bit is well and truly being champed upon although at this moment I've called time due to lack of a correct socket to undo the driveshafts (35mm/36mm?) and the fact that the boss is much better now & we're off out for a walk shortly :) (I shall pay a visit to Halfords on the way though!)

Other than that though, everything else is out of the way & once the driveshafts are out of the way it's a simple case of undoing the mounting bolts and lifting away when the crane lands. Bet you're not as anxious for a result as I am haha, Escort is due it's MoT on the 5th so if it fails horribly the Xantia may get a chance to come out and play for a while when it's fixed!