Dump Your Deezel

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I can't see it - apart from the oil companies frustrating the process as they have the most to lose.

I'll just sit back and see whether it all go toes up, as long as I have my ICE vehicle, ready to go at a moments notice, I'm happy. :-D

Also forgot to mention this really can't happen anyway until Boris has built all his mini nuclear power stations to cope.

Peter.N.
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Peter.N. »

Another point is that it will be considerably cheaper to charge your car at home than using a fast charger and it's better for the batteries. The only people that will have to use charging stations are those that travel high mileages for a living or perhaps just for holidays.- and any that don't have access to home charging. A great many cars that are only used for shopping and the school run will probably not need charging every day.

The people that were at the farm below us had an electric car and managed fine with it, and it's very hilly here.

Peter

Gibbo2286
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Should be some cheap low mileage diesels for sale in 2029 :-D buy one of those and keep it for ten years by which time they'll know if the electric novelty has worn off.

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mickthemaverick
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by mickthemaverick »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
18 Nov 2020, 18:16
Should be some cheap low mileage diesels for sale in 2029 :-D buy one of those and keep it for ten years by which time they'll know if the electric novelty has worn off.
And of course you can run it on rapeseed oil and avoid the carbon emissions!! :)

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bobins
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by bobins »

I love this idea that we'll be able to charge up our cars whilst we're shopping in 10 years time.
I love this idea that we'll be able to do it whilst at work.
I love this idea that every journey will be a leisurely day out where we can plan our charging stops accordingly.
I love this idea we'll all be able to afford either the new BEVs or the inflated prices that will be commanded by the remaining ICE cars.
I love this idea that car ownership will still be universal.
I love this idea that tomorrow will be just like today.

Meanwhile........ back in reality.
10 years hence. A lot can happen in 10 years. A hell of a lot of change will happen.
Just look at "The Great Experiment" that's been running for less than 10 months this year. Suddenly, people have found they can work fine from home. It is actually possible to teach people remotely. You can order your weekly shop online and it turns up at your front door in a van. You don't actually need to drive into town to have a coffee with your friends. It is actually OK to use Zoom or Teams. Amazon and eBay can supply many of your needs. Suddenly, a lot of people have sadly lost their jobs and found they haven't got as much disposable income.
Then we get onto self-driving cars which were 'happening' long before The Great Experiment. 10 years of evolution of self driving cars - where will that get us ? How many people will - genuinely - need to own their own cars, and how many will be happy to click a button on an app and have one turn up at the front door. Need the thrill of driving a car ? No problem - press the button on that car's dashboard that says 'Pseudo-Manual Experience' and off you go into the sunset, paying by the hour or by the mile.

In 10 years time, motoring will be a bit different. The only constant in life is change.

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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Hydrogen has had a few mentions on the thread, and while being an energy intensive product to produce it has a number of things going for it which will embed into the mix of energy storage for solar & wind power/decarbonising industrial production/possibly domestic heating/cooking (talk already of up to 20% hydrogen being tested in existing domestic gas supplies.) Supplies for private fuel cell vehicles on the road network is not the medium term priority.

As mentioned by Marc the Oil Companies will not go quietly, some like Shell and BP have turned themselves into Energy Companies, and had a bit of a turnaround in the last couple of years, but expect synthetic carbon-neutral fuel to emerge, as well as them turning to producing "Blue Hydrogen" from their Natural GAs via Carbon Capture and Storage, rather than setting fire to the methane an letting the CO2 flow.
From time to time I lob up a bit of Hydrogen News on this thread, chip into it if you find anything interesting.

Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles still alive:?:
One of the latest reported on the EU's recently published Hydrogen Strategy. As indicated below in the initial years transport hardly gets a mention. Hydrogen for energy storage purposes in connection with solar and wind, and decarbonising industrial processes is the primary aim.
NewcastleFalcon wrote:
09 Jul 2020, 12:22
Unlikely that many FCF Members will plough through this but just for the record yesterday the EU did publish the final version of their Hydrogen Strategy.

https://www.h2-view.com/story/eu-unveil ... -strategy/
Spoiler: show
Transport is almost an aside, with the objective of the first part of the strategy (2020-24) to decarbonise existing hydrogen production for current uses such as the chemical sector, and promote it for new applications. This phase relies on the installation of at least 6 Gigawatt of renewable hydrogen electrolysers in the EU by 2024 and aims at producing up to one million tonne of renewable hydrogen. In comparison to the current situation, approximately 1 Gigawatt of electrolysers are installed in the EU today.

On transport.....
"In transport, hydrogen is also a promising option where electrification is more difficult. For example in local city buses, commercial fleets or specific parts of the rail network. Heavy-duty vehicles including coaches, special purpose vehicles, and long-haul road freight could also be decarbonised by using hydrogen as a fuel. Hydrogen fuel-cell trains could be extended and hydrogen could be used as a fuel for maritime transport on inland waterways and short-sea shipping.

In the long term, hydrogen can also become an option to decarbonise the aviation and maritime sector, through the production of liquid synthetic kerosene or other synthetic fuels."
That bit about synthetic fuels seems to be contradicted by the final sentence in this paragraph, but you could perhaps see the Car Industry lobbying for "green" synthetic fuels, and continuing to burn them in their vehicles with "similar levels of air pollutant emissions as fossil fuels".
Hydrogen-derived synthetic fuels refer to a variety of gaseous and liquid fuels on the basis of hydrogen and carbon. For synthetic fuels to be considered renewable, the hydrogen part of the syngas should be renewable. Synthetic fuels include for instance synthetic kerosene in aviation, synthetic diesel for cars, and various molecules used in the production of chemicals and fertilisers. Synthetic fuels can be associated with very different levels of greenhouse gas emissions depending on the feedstock and process used. In terms of air pollution, burning synthetic fuels produces similar levels of air pollutant emissions as fossil fuels.



REgards Neil

Peter.N.
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Peter.N. »

Orkney is I believe self sufficient in renewable energy and exports some to the mainland, I think I heard they are using some of the surplus to make hydrogen, one way of making use of it - if you have surplus energy.

Peter

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myglaren
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by myglaren »

Perhaps they could capture the methane that is threatening to be released from the arctic sea beds and hydrogenizate it.
CO2 being a lesser evil.

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CitroJim
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by CitroJim »

Hydrogen is, I believe, being looked at for railway traction. Already there's an experimental train running on it and in the longer term it may be more economical than installing more overhead line electrification infrastructure...

I also believe diesel traction is due to be phased out in the not too distant...

Some lightly used secondary lines already have battery trains running on them - repurposed underground stock...

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mickthemaverick
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by mickthemaverick »

I find myself in a dilemma. I'd like to follow the theme of this thread but I really dont want to give up my C5. So, the logical path for me is to run it on veggie oil. I have done that with both my Shogun and my Delica so I already am aware of the necessary modifications and I will run on dual fuel so I can start and warm up on diesel and then switch over to veggie for the journey and back to diesel before turning off to ensure that the fuel in the injection system during silent time is diesel and therefore will not 'gum up' the system when cold. There is loads of info available for me on the appropriate sites and I will read up on it but I wondered if any FCF members have tried veggie oil in a psa HDi engine? :-D

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myglaren
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by myglaren »

Not veggie but biodiesel made from chucked out chip shop oil and when that became difficult to obtain then virgin rapeseed oil.
It was excellent and smelled lovely - not like a kitchen but vaguely alcohol-like.

A complete pain to DIY though.

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CitroJim
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by CitroJim »

myglaren wrote:
19 Nov 2020, 10:01
Not veggie but biodiesel made from chucked out chip shop oil and when that became difficult to obtain then virgin rapeseed oil.
It was excellent and smelled lovely - not like a kitchen but vaguely alcohol-like.

A complete pain to DIY though.
Exactly, trying to run a modern C5 on straight veg. oil... Used or virgin, is a recipe for disaster...

Making your own biodiesel at home could be fun and a great pastime... Used to be loads of recipes and how-to articles on the web a few years ago...

It can be unhealthy and dangerous though... Methanol and Caustic Soda are not nice chemicals... Especially in combination!

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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I have a mate who was a trucker, he had access to large quantities of used chip shop oil and ran a Peugeot Estate (406 I think) on it for years, he still has and uses the car with over 300k miles on the clock although not his daily vehicle now, he bought a VW T something Tiguan or Tourag Toerag :lol:

He has a filter/strainer system set up in his workshop where he cleans up the fuel running it through coffee filters for the final clean.

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mickthemaverick
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by mickthemaverick »

I used to collect 300l of used oil at monthly intervals. It was filtered to 10 microns initially in my own workshop and latterly by my supplier at a price increase from 50p to 60p a litre. The chap lived in Suffolk so I had a monthly return trip with my trailer loaded with 15 20 litre cans. Fine on the way there, hairy on the way back. A good job I didn't have an accident or there would have been a very messy trailer to recover!! Anyhow both my 2800cc diesel vehicles averaged 28mpg on the oil which in terms of cost was an equivalent of 74mpg at diesel costs. Put another way I got more than double the distance for my pound which made it worthwhile. We actually took the Delica to Monza and back entirely on the oil and saved a fortune, despite a few hairy moments in Swiss customs!!
So I am fully cognisant with the means of operation but the oil damages some types of rubber which is my main concern regarding my 20 year old HDi. Many injection pumps run happily on veggie but some don't and that is the subject of my interest re the HDi. Within your comment above Jim, is my 20 year old HDi considered modern? :) :?:

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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Peter.N. »

The earlier 406's had the XUD engine which would quite happily run on chip fat but I think the Hdi will be a bit more particular on account of the fact that the injection pressure is about 20 times higher. Not heard of anyone who has tried it but I expect someone will pop up and prove me wrong.

Peter