Dump Your Deezel

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ain't going to happen, the previous target was too ambitious and this is ridiculous. Just where do they think the millions of households that live in a terraced street for example are going to charge these up without running electric cables all the way from the house to the road? Not everybody lives in a detached house with a garage and off-road parking. Totally ridiculous and not thought through.

I will mark this post and revisit it in 10 years time just to see.

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myglaren
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by myglaren »

I agree. There are so many areas where it will be impractical if not impossible to create adequate charging points - tower blocks with hundreds of residents - there is barely adequate parking in many areas let alone provision for charging electric vehicles.

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mickthemaverick
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by mickthemaverick »

I agree too regarding the charging network but my guess is that area will be addressed by the accelerated development of hydrogen fuel cells, as mentioned in the plan, to remove the charging requirement for those with no potential (no pun intended) access to charging. :)

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myglaren
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by myglaren »

I remain very sceptical about hydrogen too.

Peter.N.
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Peter.N. »

I shall be 91 by then so I dont think it will bother me a lot - either way. :? :) Running hydrogen will probably actually use twice as much energy and I can't see us having that amount of spare capacity.

Peter

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Mandrake
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Mandrake »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
18 Nov 2020, 16:21
Ain't going to happen, the previous target was too ambitious and this is ridiculous. Just where do they think the millions of households that live in a terraced street for example are going to charge these up without running electric cables all the way from the house to the road? Not everybody lives in a detached house with a garage and off-road parking. Totally ridiculous and not thought through.
Relax and breath calmly.. you'll be alright. :lol:

While home charging is certainly the preferred option with EV's from a convenience, efficiency and cost point of view, and is much more feasible with shorter range EV's, it won't be the only option by 2030.

As range continues to increase and rapid charging speeds go up a point will soon be reached where the "petrol station model" works for EV's as well, more or less. In other words you plug in for 20 minutes on a rapid charger once a week while you do some shopping and you have a full charge that will last you a week. Then there's work charging which will work for many people as well.

Not as convenient as having your own "filling station" at home by charging at home, but nobody ever said owning a car without off street parking was convenient in the first place! :wink:

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Very few of us have petrol pumps or diesel pumps at our homes either. In 12 months and 10,000 miles of electric car ownership even now I have never charged up once at home.

Regards Neil

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mickthemaverick
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by mickthemaverick »

There is of course the other reality concerning the age of vehicles. Just because the sale of new petrol and diesel will end there will still be a substantial number of such vehicles on the road for many years to come. I own a twenty six year old and a nineteen year old at the moment which is typical of my ownership set over the last 30 years and I don't see it changing!! :)

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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Mandrake »

Peter.N. wrote:
18 Nov 2020, 16:57
I shall be 91 by then so I dont think it will bother me a lot - either way. :? :) Running hydrogen will probably actually use twice as much energy and I can't see us having that amount of spare capacity.
Hydrogen cars would require more than double the power generation on the grid to make up for the poor efficiency of both converting electricity to hydrogen (and oxygen) and converting it back to electricity.

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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by GiveMeABreak »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
18 Nov 2020, 17:16
Very few of us have petrol pumps or diesel pumps at our homes either. In 12 months and 10,000 miles of electric car ownership even now I have never charged up once at home.

Regards Neil
Nope, can't accept this at all.

I myself don't live in a terraced house - it was just an example I picked - but here is the issue that nobody seems to get. A petrol or diesel - pull in, 5 minutes to fill up pay and go job done.

And where Simon says - just leave it plugged in and go and do some shopping - not here. I have a 20 mile trip to the shops with a few car parks - so unless they convert all the car parks (which is bad enough trying to get a space as it is (no public transport to speak of) to each have an electric point while you are parked - that means I've got to run my life around charging the bloody car up! I can't see people spending a £5 on a coffee whilst waiting to get their cars charged up so they can get home again.

I'm totally not convinced and have serious doubts about car battery technology raw material sourcing too and how this is going to impact on the planet they claim they are trying to save.

Rant over - I will be looking to get another diesel or even a new petrol in way before 2030 I think. Just need to get planning permission to have an underground fuel storage dump installed now. :-D

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Mandrake
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Mandrake »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
18 Nov 2020, 17:16
Very few of us have petrol pumps or diesel pumps at our homes either. In 12 months and 10,000 miles of electric car ownership even now I have never charged up once at home.
One thing overlooked by the "where will I charge my car" worry warts is that public charging doesn't need to provide for all EV charging.

Today, every single Petrol and Diesel car has to go to a service station to fuel up - nobody makes their own fuel at home. So there need to be enough service stations to provide for every single car on the road.

Yes even rapid charging takes longer than filling with Petrol or Diesel, however that doesn't mean every EV will need to use a public charger for most of its driving. Far from it.

Actual figures for the UK are around 66% of car driving families have off street parking in the form of a garage or driveway. A lot more people who don't have cars don't have off street parking but.... well, they don't have cars... :wink: Counting the people who don't even drive or own cars in the statistics of how many have off street parking just skews the results - they're not suddenly going to run out and buy EV's after not previously being a car owner.

So 2/3 of all drivers in the UK have the potential to charge EV's at home for the majority of their driving meaning that only 1/3rd will rely on workplace or public charging. This greatly reduces contention for access to public charging facilities.

Hydrogen cars would follow the same model as Petrol and Diesel - all of them would have to go to service stations as you wouldn't be able to fill up a HFCV at home. :)

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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Mandrake »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
18 Nov 2020, 17:30
Nope, can't accept this at all.

I myself don't live in a terraced house - it was just an example I picked - but here is the issue that nobody seems to get. A petrol or diesel - pull in, 5 minutes to fill up pay and go job done.

And where Simon says - just leave it plugged in and go and do some shopping - not here. I have a 20 mile trip to the shops with a few car parks - so unless they convert all the car parks (which is bad enough trying to get a space as it is (no public transport to speak of) to each have an electric point while you are parked - that means I've got to run my life around charging the bloody car up! I can't see people spending a £5 on a coffee whilst waiting to get their cars charged up so they can get home again.
Before you worry about how long charging will take, tell us how many miles per day and per week you do. Then we can have a fact based discussion about how feasible it would or wouldn't be for you without access to home charging.

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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Reluctantly the auto industry is like a set of dominoes gradually realising what is happening. With similar targets all across the globe, and Europe in general "leading the way" both by policy aims, and a bit of gentle enforcement through fleet emissions fines, a large automaker would be a bit mad to comitt R&D resources and plan to produce new ICE models assumimg that the "ban" isn't going to happen. By the time 2030 comes around a literal "ban" will very probably have already occurred through a consequent "blight" on buying petrol/diesel cars and the electric vehicle choice/price/running cost/maintenance cost all being stacked in its favour.

Regards Neil

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Typically I used to do 350 miles to work and back per week basic travel, excluding any onward travel from my office, so I may need to add on another 100+ miles to that the odd week and then again that excludes any weekend travel.

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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
18 Nov 2020, 17:38
Typically I used to do 350 miles to work and back per week basic travel, excluding any onward travel from my office, so I may need to add on another 100+ miles to that the odd week and then again that excludes any weekend travel.
Be a breeze in one of those Tesla things Marc!

Regards Neil