I get your point, however arguing that not driving a car at all is cleaner and greener than driving either an ICE or BEV is an entirely separate debate to which one is cleaner and better (technically, less bad as you point out) for the environment.bobins wrote: ↑09 Nov 2019, 21:54I think you've actually backed up my assertion for me, although to be fair, I'm looking at the 'whole car' scenario. I have no problem with BEVs being cleaner and greener than ICEs, but owning and driving a BEV doesn't mean you're making the world better, it just means you're making it less worse than driving an ICE vehicle. No mass market vehicle - no matter what powers it - could be considered green or clean at any point when you consider how the raw materials that manufacture it get to the factory and you consider the thousands of people involved in its production - from the cleaner travelling to work to clean the office where they design it, to the bod getting to work that sticks the badge on the bootlid when it's built, to the person delivering it at the end. Then consider the fact that most cars spend most of their time doing nothing deteriorating on the driveway / parked up on the roadside / sitting in the car park at work / etc.
I buy a car with any motive power you care to mention, it spends most of its time doing nothing and deteriorating, I then get rid of it when it's no longer fit for purpose. That ain't ever going to be 'green' or 'clean' - not now, not ever.
There isn't a 'clean' or 'green' way to own a vehicle - just degrees of 'dirtiness'
The reality is that a lot of people do actually need a car, including me. Public transport isn't the panacea some people seem to think it is, and in my own personal circumstances of trying to drop my toddler off with his Gran so he can go to Nursery and I can go to work (and carpool SWMBO to work as well) public transport simply does not work. It's not even physically possible in my particular circumstances, due to scheduling of the trains and buses that would be required, it's car or nothing - one reason I have two cars as I can't afford to be without one working even for a few days!
So by all means reduce car ownership where possible but for those that genuinely can't make do without a car, it might as well be the cleanest and greenest you can get. I'm doing 1000 miles a month in my Ion and that is not contributing any exhaust emissions in the areas I drive, including past the school I work at. (Meanwhile parents sit there waiting for their kids idling huge Diesel SUV's right next to the no idling sign...) Brake wear is minimal and as its a small car tyre particulates will be fairly low as well.
The primary reason I drive the Ion on my commute despite it being a small, somewhat cramped, no frills and very short range car is that the running costs per mile are rediculously low, (8x less than the Xantia, and 4x less than the typical 40mpg Diesel) however the fact that is not polluting everywhere I go also factors highly in my thinking, especially now I'm a parent.
If I could upgrade to a slightly bigger, longer range more comfortable and capable EV that could manage all my driving needs without too much hassle then I doubt I would buy another ICE once the Xantia goes.