Dump Your Deezel

This is the place for posts that don't fit into any other category.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
electronmirror
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 246
Joined: 27 Oct 2005, 20:42
Location: Berkshire,'tween Reading+Bracknell
My Cars: C5 2.0 (163) diesel Exclusive Tourer 2010
Xantia Exclusive HDI Estate
x 27

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by electronmirror »

Came across this (sponsored) article from Bosch. https://tinyurl.com/y97o2c67
Ted
2010 C5 2.0 diesel(163) Exclusive Tourer (118,000miles)
1999 Xantia Exclusive Estate 110 Hdi Mauritius Blue with self peeling lacquer finish (276,174miles)

1991 XM Prestige 2.0 Auto(157,000 miles) gone but not forgotten
Hell Razor5543
Donor 2023
Posts: 13727
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
Location: Reading
My Cars: C5 Mk2 VTX+ estate.
x 2993

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I seem to recall hearing/reading something that suggests petrol engines may also be producing particulates similar to those produced by diesel engines. The explanation implies that, because the engines are using common fuel rail technologies, the fuel is being more efficiently burnt, so there are now less sooty particles (but more in the way of finer particles). Certainly if you compare a TD Xantia to an HDi Xantia (both running properly) you can see the HDi is producing less in the way of visible pollution when the engine is under load. It is just that, because diesel has, over time, gained a reputation for being 'dirty' (OK, this is justified in the past) it is still seen to be 'dirty' when compared with petrol. If my memory is correct the article might suggest that current technology fossil fuel engines now are emitting similar types (and similar levels) of pollution.
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR

C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
User avatar
EDC5
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 1216
Joined: 01 Jul 2017, 21:48
Location: N. Wales
My Cars: Citroen C5 RHR AM6
x 120

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by EDC5 »

Hell Razor5543 wrote: 27 Apr 2018, 09:48 I seem to recall hearing/reading something that suggests petrol engines may also be producing particulates similar to those produced by diesel engines. The explanation implies that, because the engines are using common fuel rail technologies, the fuel is being more efficiently burnt, so there are now less sooty particles (but more in the way of finer particles). Certainly if you compare a TD Xantia to an HDi Xantia (both running properly) you can see the HDi is producing less in the way of visible pollution when the engine is under load. It is just that, because diesel has, over time, gained a reputation for being 'dirty' (OK, this is justified in the past) it is still seen to be 'dirty' when compared with petrol. If my memory is correct the article might suggest that current technology fossil fuel engines now are emitting similar types (and similar levels) of pollution.


Yes that’s quite true, I believe that later this year the first petrols with DPFs will hit the showrooms in response to the issue.

I think the VW up! GTi might be one of the first to get the petrol DPF.
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 37005
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5646

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by GiveMeABreak »

They are referred to as GPFs (Gasoline Particulate Filters) for petrol engines. Petrol cars are just as guilty at throwing out particulate matter (albeit in smaller quantities) - but nonetheless it is still the 'fine' particulate matter and that is the worst for your health. Long overdue, considering Diesels and specifically the PSA DPF traps over 99% of it on a Diesel.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8615
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
Location: North Lanarkshire, UK
My Cars:
x 664

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Mandrake »

Only GDI (gas direct injection) petrols produce any significant amounts of particulates. This is because they work very similarly to an HDI Diesel engine by injecting the fuel directly into the cylinder at extremely high pressures during the compression stroke.

One of the drawbacks of the newer "more efficient" GDI engines.

Conventional petrol EFI systems with fuel injectors above the valves where the fuel is drawn in with the air on the induction stroke do not produce any significant particulates.
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
andy5
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 438
Joined: 05 Nov 2010, 13:40
Location:
My Cars:
x 104

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by andy5 »

The government's cat is trying to chase some pigeons off the lawn

New slogan Dump Your Hybrid. They don't like anything with less than 50 miles electric range, which is plenty of them

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-44008098
User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 24563
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 10:40
Location:
My Cars:
x 6866

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

I think you can safely predict that any car maker that plans to be still producing hybrids in 2040, or let alone hybrids with less than 50 miles range, will not sell a single car and QED be architects of their own demise.

..and if we don't move our unambitious albeit totally reasonable target of 2040 forward a bit, our ""We are leading the world in the development of electric vehicles" (T.May PMQ's Wednesday November 1st 2017) credentials will be further damaged :-D

Regards Neil
Only One AA Box left
687 Trinity, Jersey
User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8615
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
Location: North Lanarkshire, UK
My Cars:
x 664

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Mandrake »

Some of these hybrids have a ridiculously short electric only range that makes me think "why bother"...

The Mitsubishi Outlander and VW e-Golf hybrids both claim about 30 miles electric range for example, but in reality its more like 20-25 miles especially with the heater on. Why bother ? My Ion can do 60 miles on a charge and that's the bare minimum that's useful in my opinion ! 25 is just lip service to appease regulators, so I don't have any sympathy for them.
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
Gibbo2286
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 7171
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
Location: GL15***
My Cars: 2006 C5 2.0 Litre HDI VTR Automatic Estate.(now sold on)
Currently Renault Zoe 2014 ZE
x 2500

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Gibbo2286 »

It's all academic anyway, if Russia turns off the natural gas pipeline by 2040 we'll be digging up the 300 years supply of coal sitting unused under the UK and burning that for fuel. :shock:
Man is, by nature, a lazy beast, he does not need twice encouraging to do nothing.
User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 7445
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 12:46
Location: Sayalonga, Malaga, Spain
My Cars: 1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive hatch RHD
1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S
x 1752

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by white exec »

Mandrake wrote: 05 May 2018, 09:19 Some of these hybrids have a ridiculously short electric only range...

What have I been saying for months now? #-o
Chris
andy5
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 438
Joined: 05 Nov 2010, 13:40
Location:
My Cars:
x 104

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by andy5 »

Mandrake wrote: 05 May 2018, 09:19 Some of these hybrids have a ridiculously short electric only range that makes me think "why bother"...

The Mitsubishi Outlander and VW e-Golf hybrids both claim about 30 miles electric range for example, but in reality its more like 20-25 miles especially with the heater on. Why bother ? My Ion can do 60 miles on a charge and that's the bare minimum that's useful in my opinion ! 25 is just lip service to appease regulators, so I don't have any sympathy for them.

There are different approaches. The early hybrids were about conservation of energy, using electric to tide things over when needing higher output or in towns.

But then people wanted plug-in charging too, and longer range, bigger battery, heavier ... Maybe it isn't quite the same type of car.

Longer electric range on a hybrid doesn't necessarily make as much sense as on initial thought, or not the way some are going at the moment, too heavy. The less the fueled engine will be used, the stronger becomes the reasoning might as well chuck out the engine and have an only electric car, especially to have one in a two car family.

More manufacturers should be working towards the lighter leaner end of the market, like the BMW i3, and a bit smaller. But then they have more trouble getting a nice price.
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49526
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6160
Contact:

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by CitroJim »

Gibbo2286 wrote: 05 May 2018, 09:26 It's all academic anyway, if Russia turns off the natural gas pipeline by 2040 we'll be digging up the 300 years supply of coal sitting unused under the UK and burning that for fuel. :shock:


Maggie might just have done us a big favour back in the 80s by 'protecting' our coal reserves then...

Plenty of steam locomotives left to power the railways too :)
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Wookey
(Donor 2019)
Posts: 255
Joined: 28 Dec 2004, 08:43
Location: Cambridge, United Kingdom
My Cars: Peugeot Expert 1.9D (Camper conversion) (2003-now)
x 12
Contact:

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Wookey »

Mandrake wrote: 05 May 2018, 09:19 The Mitsubishi Outlander and VW e-Golf hybrids both claim about 30 miles electric range for example, but in reality its more like 20-25 miles especially with the heater on. Why bother ?


I have a mate with one of these. He commutes about 20 miles to work. Charges there and commutes electrically back. So he uses no petrol at all for the daily commute. But he can still drive halfway across the country to go caving. I think there are quite a lot of people with a <25 mile commute but a need to travel further at weekends, which is probably why these cars have been very popular. They definitely aren't useless although I think ell-electic will be more common than hybrids in a few years time. I'm certainly hanging on to my 20 year old Expert for a 300-mile BEV van in the next few years (even though it will no doubt be painfully expensive).
Wookey
(2003-now:1997 Peugeot Expert stealth camper, 1991-2003:1987 C15)
User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 7445
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 12:46
Location: Sayalonga, Malaga, Spain
My Cars: 1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive hatch RHD
1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S
x 1752

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by white exec »

It would be very instructive to know the percentage of real-life hybrid mileage that is actually performed battery-only.
My guess is that Toyota and Mitsubishi know exactly these figures (retrievable, surely, from their vehicles), but will do their level best to keep this under wraps.
Chris
MikeT
Posts: 4809
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon
x 231

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by MikeT »

It appears the government are already watering down their pledge to ban all new ICE sales by 2040, and now referrin to it as a "mission".

In fact, (I think it was during PMQ's) I heard an MP bigging-up the future of "cleaner diesels".
Post Reply