Dump Your Deezel

[electronmirror]

Came across this (sponsored) article from Bosch. https://tinyurl.com/y97o2c67

[Hell Razor5543]

I seem to recall hearing/reading something that suggests petrol engines may also be producing particulates similar to those produced by diesel engines. The explanation implies that, because the engines are using common fuel rail technologies, the fuel is being more efficiently burnt, so there are now less sooty particles (but more in the way of finer particles). Certainly if you compare a TD Xantia to an HDi Xantia (both running properly) you can see the HDi is producing less in the way of visible pollution when the engine is under load. It is just that, because diesel has, over time, gained a reputation for being 'dirty' (OK, this is justified in the past) it is still seen to be 'dirty' when compared with petrol. If my memory is correct the article might suggest that current technology fossil fuel engines now are emitting similar types (and similar levels) of pollution.

[EDC5]

I seem to recall hearing/reading something that suggests petrol engines may also be producing particulates similar to those produced by diesel engines. The explanation implies that, because the engines are using common fuel rail technologies, the fuel is being more efficiently burnt, so there are now less sooty particles (but more in the way of finer particles). Certainly if you compare a TD Xantia to an HDi Xantia (both running properly) you can see the HDi is producing less in the way of visible pollution when the engine is under load. It is just that, because diesel has, over time, gained a reputation for being 'dirty' (OK, this is justified in the past) it is still seen to be 'dirty' when compared with petrol. If my memory is correct the article might suggest that current technology fossil fuel engines now are emitting similar types (and similar levels) of pollution.

Yes that’s quite true, I believe that later this year the first petrols with DPFs will hit the showrooms in response to the issue.

I think the VW up! GTi might be one of the first to get the petrol DPF.

[GiveMeABreak]

They are referred to as GPFs (Gasoline Particulate Filters) for petrol engines. Petrol cars are just as guilty at throwing out particulate matter (albeit in smaller quantities) - but nonetheless it is still the 'fine' particulate matter and that is the worst for your health. Long overdue, considering Diesels and specifically the PSA DPF traps over 99% of it on a Diesel.

[Mandrake]

Only GDI (gas direct injection) petrols produce any significant amounts of particulates. This is because they work very similarly to an HDI Diesel engine by injecting the fuel directly into the cylinder at extremely high pressures during the compression stroke.

One of the drawbacks of the newer "more efficient" GDI engines.

Conventional petrol EFI systems with fuel injectors above the valves where the fuel is drawn in with the air on the induction stroke do not produce any significant particulates.

[andy5]

The government's cat is trying to chase some pigeons off the lawn

New slogan Dump Your Hybrid. They don't like anything with less than 50 miles electric range, which is plenty of them

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-44008098

[NewcastleFalcon]

I think you can safely predict that any car maker that plans to be still producing hybrids in 2040, or let alone hybrids with less than 50 miles range, will not sell a single car and QED be architects of their own demise.

..and if we don't move our unambitious albeit totally reasonable target of 2040 forward a bit, our ""We are leading the world in the development of electric vehicles" (T.May PMQ's Wednesday November 1st 2017) credentials will be further damaged

Regards Neil

[Mandrake]

Some of these hybrids have a ridiculously short electric only range that makes me think "why bother"...

The Mitsubishi Outlander and VW e-Golf hybrids both claim about 30 miles electric range for example, but in reality its more like 20-25 miles especially with the heater on. Why bother ? My Ion can do 60 miles on a charge and that's the bare minimum that's useful in my opinion ! 25 is just lip service to appease regulators, so I don't have any sympathy for them.

[Gibbo2286]

It's all academic anyway, if Russia turns off the natural gas pipeline by 2040 we'll be digging up the 300 years supply of coal sitting unused under the UK and burning that for fuel.

[white exec]

Some of these hybrids have a ridiculously short electric only range...

What have I been saying for months now?

[andy5]

Some of these hybrids have a ridiculously short electric only range that makes me think "why bother"...

The Mitsubishi Outlander and VW e-Golf hybrids both claim about 30 miles electric range for example, but in reality its more like 20-25 miles especially with the heater on. Why bother ? My Ion can do 60 miles on a charge and that's the bare minimum that's useful in my opinion ! 25 is just lip service to appease regulators, so I don't have any sympathy for them.

There are different approaches. The early hybrids were about conservation of energy, using electric to tide things over when needing higher output or in towns.

But then people wanted plug-in charging too, and longer range, bigger battery, heavier ... Maybe it isn't quite the same type of car.

Longer electric range on a hybrid doesn't necessarily make as much sense as on initial thought, or not the way some are going at the moment, too heavy. The less the fueled engine will be used, the stronger becomes the reasoning might as well chuck out the engine and have an only electric car, especially to have one in a two car family.

More manufacturers should be working towards the lighter leaner end of the market, like the BMW i3, and a bit smaller. But then they have more trouble getting a nice price.

[CitroJim]

It's all academic anyway, if Russia turns off the natural gas pipeline by 2040 we'll be digging up the 300 years supply of coal sitting unused under the UK and burning that for fuel.

Maggie might just have done us a big favour back in the 80s by 'protecting' our coal reserves then...

Plenty of steam locomotives left to power the railways too

[Wookey]

The Mitsubishi Outlander and VW e-Golf hybrids both claim about 30 miles electric range for example, but in reality its more like 20-25 miles especially with the heater on. Why bother ?

I have a mate with one of these. He commutes about 20 miles to work. Charges there and commutes electrically back. So he uses no petrol at all for the daily commute. But he can still drive halfway across the country to go caving. I think there are quite a lot of people with a <25 mile commute but a need to travel further at weekends, which is probably why these cars have been very popular. They definitely aren't useless although I think ell-electic will be more common than hybrids in a few years time. I'm certainly hanging on to my 20 year old Expert for a 300-mile BEV van in the next few years (even though it will no doubt be painfully expensive).

[white exec]

It would be very instructive to know the percentage of real-life hybrid mileage that is actually performed battery-only.
My guess is that Toyota and Mitsubishi know exactly these figures (retrievable, surely, from their vehicles), but will do their level best to keep this under wraps.

[MikeT]

It appears the government are already watering down their pledge to ban all new ICE sales by 2040, and now referrin to it as a "mission".

In fact, (I think it was during PMQ's) I heard an MP bigging-up the future of "cleaner diesels".