Dump Your Deezel

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Mandrake
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Mandrake »

A few interesting things in this article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33254803
And, in theory, it was an easy sell - diesel engines are more efficient than petrol engines, so running costs are cheaper. Using less fuel should mean lower emissions.
In practice, however, laboratory measurements of CO2 emissions from diesel and petrol engines are the same, according to Martin Adams at the European Environment Agency (EEA). And as diesel cars tend to be bigger and heavier, any advantages in efficiency are wiped out.
As a result, average CO2 emissions from diesel cars are only fractionally lower than those from petrol cars, figures from the UK's Society of Motor Manufacturers show. The industry counters that of course emissions would be greater from larger cars, and maintains that when comparing like-for-like models, diesels do emit noticeably less.
Just how ineffective they are is staggering. Tests conducted by the ICCT show that modern diesel cars emit on average seven times the EU limit for NOx.
A separate test showed that some individual cars emit even more - an Audi A8 emitted 22 times the limit. Only three cars - an Audi A5, a VW Golf and a BMW 3-series - complied with EU regulations.
Ouch...

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CitroJim
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by CitroJim »

Mandrake wrote: BTW, what delicious irony given my comment of VW being found out:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36548893
It is indeed a delicious irony and causes me to give my wryest smile...
Mandrake wrote:Perhaps VW have turned turned a new leaf
No, only Nissan can do that ;) :lol:

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CitroJim
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by CitroJim »

Mandrake wrote:A few interesting things in this article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33254803

A separate test showed that some individual cars emit even more - an Audi A8 emitted 22 times the limit.
Ouch...
I can vouch for that... Being a cyclist along a busy commuter road in the mornings I can tell by smell and eye-irritation the dirty ones. Big 'Chelsea Tractors' tend to be very bad with perhaps the Land/Range Rovers the very worst... Big German cars and those big toy pick-ups ('Utes to you Simon) generally are very bad.

I reckon I can also tell by smell those petrol cars that will fail their next MOT on emissions... Cats I know work as cold ones really do stink and irritate me. When hot they are generally completely odourless which is more than can be said for many diesels..

Also, my sense of smell finds the older but well-maintained diesels (PSA HDi and XUD/DW) much less irritating and smelly...

Does IDI (InDirect Injection) systems as used in the XUD/DW8 have any NOx and particulate emission advantages? My nose says they might well.

After all, the original Ricardo-designed IDI bus engines did a fantastic job of cleaning up the then intractable smog problem caused by London Transport just after the war...

Maybe IDI engines should be looked at afresh?

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Stickyfinger »

I can hardly smell my X7 even when cold, nor at all when hot.....when at home, if I rev it, no smoke. Other stuff, not a clue. I do wonder if all oilers are being condemned due to the fashion and VW ect....

lexi
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by lexi »

A little bit of searching Jim and you could WVO Gabriel? Clear conscience then I suppose......

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CitroJim
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by CitroJim »

lexi wrote:A little bit of searching Jim and you could WVO Gabriel? Clear conscience then I suppose......
I could indeed Lexi but for the tiny mileages I do it's a lot of faffing about... If I was doing a reasonable figure I'd be seriously looking into it but for less than 3K a year now...
Stickyfinger wrote:I do wonder if all oilers are being condemned due to the fashion and VW ect....
No, I don't think so as the health effects are real enough. I do think though that all diesel transport needs to be looked at, especially buses that seem to still smoke and stink terribly... Diesel trains too... maybe they're not as bad as the older generation that could be mistaken for steam locos but they're still quite smoky when working hard... The thing is that there is an order of magnitude more cars on the roads at any one time and thus their pollution footprint is potentially that much greater.

Lorries I understand are now fairly good as the vast majority seem to be new enough to be running Adblue systems and it's rare to see a lorry smoke these days and I don't consciously smell them... Ditto white vans...

Interestingly, when I cycle over the M1 overbridges all I smell is rubber - never diesel!

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Mandrake
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Mandrake »

As someone who gets a train into Glasgow Central station every day, I'm amazed at the amount of pollution that the Diesel-Electric trains are still allowed to belch out! [-X It really is horrible. Fortunately the line I am on was electrified about a year ago.

Also busses - some busses are good but some of the older ones are also horrific with clouds of dark grey (over fuelled ?) smoke belching out of them every time they leave a bus stop.

Are there no Euro regulations for smoke from Diesel busses and locomotives like there are for cars ??! :roll:

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bobins
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by bobins »

I seem to remember that when the last fairly major bus strike was on in London a year or two ago, the pollution levels dropped noticeably. Areas that were falling below acceptable pollution levels were suddenly OK during the bus strike. Funny that !! :roll:

Edit : It was two years ago, and Lonely Planet seems to sum it up - http://www.lonelyplanet.com/news/2015/0 ... us-strike/ though some are keen to say it was down to the weather !! :?

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white exec
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by white exec »

In London, buses and taxis are some of the worst offenders for visible smoke. Bearing in mind the huge numbers of each, the mileage they cover, the type of driving they are subjected to (constant acceleration from standstill with an auto' box), and their area of use, these vehicles should be intensively targetted. Black cabs are heavy lumps - unnecessarily so - and so are their militant and well-organised drivers.

I hope the proposed diesel scrappage scheme isn't framed around pushing drivers back towards petrol or to hybrid vehicles. The first would be pointless, the second totally irrelevant and actually counter-productive, but no doubt much welcomed by SMMT.

The shift, now, needs to be to all-electric, and a "big shove" in that direction over the next 1-5 years is timely. Taxis, buses and city delivery vehicles need to be put "on notice" so that, by 2025 (or sooner) electric has become the norm.

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Now if the scrappage scheme was extended to the purchase of a second hand electric vehicle it would be a decent incentive to go for one of these 10 Nissan Leafs off Nissan's own forecourts currently priced between £5,000-£8000.

http://www.nissanusedcars.co.uk/en.GB/s ... t-val=8000

May take some within the range of more people, particularly with the £x deposit and £x per month approach, and a bit of battery life guarantee.

Maybe they havent thought of that yet within the scrapage scheme currently being mulled over. You would think the electric carmakers lobby would be right in there arguing the case!

Regards Neil

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

..oh and dont worry to much about "trucks". Tesla have that covered too with their "Semi"....

https://electrek.co/guides/tesla-semi/

regards Neil

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white exec
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by white exec »

Unfortunately, most of the electric car makers have also been the makers of internal combustion, which explains the lamentable progress of electrics until very recently, and, early on, the probably deliberately ugly offerings.

Good to see the pace picking up, though. Agree, Neil, that it would be good to see secondhand EVs brought into the scrappage scheme. Would help the momentum. My guess is, though, some of the EV manufacturers have been cautious about encouraging this, because they'd prefer not to have to support some of the early models.

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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by mickeymoon »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:Now if the scrappage scheme was extended to the purchase of a second hand electric vehicle it would be a decent incentive to go for one of these 10 Nissan Leafs off Nissan's own forecourts currently priced between £5,000-£8000.

http://www.nissanusedcars.co.uk/en.GB/s ... t-val=8000
l
Should my current ballachery involving probate resolve itself any time soon, I'll buy one of those for the missus. It'd be ideal for her.

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daviemck2006
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by daviemck2006 »

This dirty diesel scrapper scheme really wouldn't work for me. My diesel, the VAG 1.9tdi is a phenomenal engine. I don't know if at 55 plate it was part of their emission cheating or not, I don't even know the emission figures for it. However at 182500 miles it has just returned a worked out mileage of 68.4 mpg over 641 miles! And although most of these miles have been gentle, it has and does occasionally get opened up when it has a real then id speed. Now, there is no way I could trade it in for 2 grand scrappage. Why? Because there's no way I could find the 15 grand or so to get a similar sized and comfortable car to replace it with. And I couldn't ever see any car of a similar size and comfort and equipment returning anywhere near that fuel consumption. My seat is a range topper, probably nearer 20 grand for a similar spec and size. So I'm afraid that economics dictate even if their scrappage scheme was allowing 5 grand I couldn't do it. I shall just have to stick with my dirty old diesel.

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Mandrake
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Mandrake »

white exec wrote:Black cabs are heavy lumps - unnecessarily so - and so are their militant and well-organised drivers.
This made me laugh out loud on the train. :rofl2: