C5 serious suspension fault

[GiveMeABreak]

They are only supposed to ensure the suspension is working when they test it - there is no requirement and they should not be playing about with the height settings at all. The suspension should be able to pass the normal tests any other car would. If I see any of the testers fiddling with things they don't need to I tell then straight to leave it alone!

[GiveMeABreak]

No. BUT, they do jack/hang the car up on the inspection bed....so you have to remove the LDS cap for an MOT !

They shouldn't raise it with wheels hanging though for an MOT Sticky, so that should not apply. When they raise it up on the ramp the wheels should be on solid ramps so that when the car is rocked, the suspension is able to react.

[Harlequin]

actually in the manual it says to set to high when jacking the car ....

so I could in theory take it in , in high for its mot? I cant get replacement correctors by this weekend

[GiveMeABreak]

No as the suspension may not react properly on high setting and this will draw attention as the car will be too high. Leave it on normal height. If the suspension height is a little out they won't notice or be bothered as long as it does its job and is not leaking etc. You'll end up creating more problems. It should be adequate to pass the suspension test.

[Harlequin]

when I took it in last week , he said he couldn't test it as he couldn't set it to high as per his mot instructions screen

[GiveMeABreak]

I'll have a look at the regs in a second.

[GiveMeABreak]

Taken from MOT Inspection Manual (Section 2.4 Page 5) issued Jan 2017
Links here:
MOT Inspection Manual Issued January 2017

Information
Care must be taken not to cause damage to body work when pushing down on the suspension.

Method of Inspection:
Section D
Fluid/Gas/Air Suspension
1. Check suspension units and accumulators for:
a. displacement
b. damage or serious deterioration
c. fouling by moving parts.
2. Check for any leak in the system.
3. Check suspension units’ supply pipes or interconnecting pipes for security, damage or corrosion.
4. Check the security of levelling valves.
5. At each corner of the vehicle, where practicable, push down (or pull down from underneath), and note the amount of suspension movement.

Reason for Rejection
A suspension unit or accumulator:
a. displaced or totally deflated
b. damaged or deteriorated so that it is likely to fail
c. fouled by moving parts likely to cause damage or restrict travel.
2. A leak in the system.
3. A suspension unit supply pipe or interconnecting pipe insecure, damaged or corroded so that it is seriously weakened.
4. An insecure levelling valve.
5. No suspension movement.
Note:
Large vehicle suspensions can be difficult to move. Ensure there is a defect before rejection.

Also on page 5 of the MOT Inspection Manual in the Introduction it does say "Particular care is also needed when jacking vehicles fitted with pneumatic, hydraulic or self levelling suspension." and later saying "There is no requirement to jack the rear wheels of any vehicle in: Class 4 (where the DGW exceeds 5000Kg) or, Class 5.

[Stickyfinger]

No. BUT, they do jack/hang the car up on the inspection bed....so you have to remove the LDS cap for an MOT !

They shouldn't raise it with wheels hanging though for an MOT Sticky, so that should not apply. When they raise it up on the ramp the wheels should be on solid ramps so that when the car is rocked, the suspension is able to react.

They do............well my guy always does when checking types of joints which cannot be checked when the car is on the wheels. They use the lifting beam and did frnt/rear in turn. He then dropped it and did the shake test....I was the one who screamed at him about the jet of LDS hitting the garage roof !

(We had opened the bonnet earlier to change a dip beam bulb, very lucky it had been left open)

[GiveMeABreak]

The ramps where I take mine have swivel plates on so they can turn the wheels and check the steering / suspension / joints etc easily enough.

Vehicles with suspension types as shown in Diagram figure 2 and 2a must be jacked so that the suspension spring force is removed from the ball joints, i.e. suspension arms must be clear of their stops. Failure to do this can result in defective joints being overlooked:

Here is their diagram - so which do you suppose either of the C5 systems comes under? (Click image to enlarge)

MOT Suspension Types

In either case - if they do need to jack up the front - it must only be the front for Class 4 passenger cars - so with the rear wheels supported there should be less stress on the system.

[Harlequin]

just called to cancel the MOT as the tester is adamant , on his screen for the reg number is an instruction it needs to be placed in HIGH before any test to minimise and stress on the hydraulic suspension when the wheels are lifted from the floor

[GiveMeABreak]

Well I would take it somewhere else. There is NO need to raise the vehicle off the ground with all 4 wheels hanging for an MOT! Yes, it should be placed on HIGH and the LDS cap removed if lifting it off the ground with wheels HANGING - correct. My point is there is no need to do this for an MOT - is should be lifted on a ramp with the wheels supported unless they need to jack up the front wheels - but that is for inspecting and not for suspension testing - they should NEVER test the Hydraulic suspension on any other setting than normal.

[GiveMeABreak]

OK, here is an update that I've just found - from the MOT and AE Testers Forum: - Information direct from DVSA

From Matters of Testing
One of our vehicle examiners recently asked whether the Citroën C5 could be jacked safely as he had heard that there may be a health and safety issue that could impact on the MOT test. As our information was a bit sketchy, we contacted Citroën for advice.

Citroën told us that they were issuing advice through their dealer network but would send one of their engineers, along with the latest C5, to our workshop in Bristol. The problem is that when the latest versions of the C5 (those with VIN prefixes VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] or VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]) are jacked and the wheels are hanging free, the manufacturer’s advice is to remove the LSD (suspension) fluid reservoir cap as there is a risk that the hydraulic reservoir could rupture. Citroën also advise that the C5 should only be raised using the designated jacking points.

Although the cap is readily accessible, it is not acceptable to remove it during the MOT test. As the axles are normally lifted independently at MOT tests, we asked Citroën if these procedures would still require the removal of the cap. We also asked about the possibility of using other mounting points, such as the sub-frame, to jack.

Citroën’s response was that the cap must still be removed when the car is jacked, but need not be removed where only one wheel at a time is raised. However, they would not support the use of anything other than the designated jacking points. We are therefore adding this advice to the Vehicle Specific Information (VSI) database.

Remember, it only applies to those C5s with the VIN prefixes mentioned earlier.

So it would seem there is no need to remove the LDS cap as long as only one wheel at a time is raised of the ground and they must use the Citroen designated jacking points. TBH honest though, my personal view is that unless you were observing the test yourself, I wouldn't trust all stations to observe this information, but I am glad they are now issuing this out - albeit from August 2015!

[Stickyfinger]

So pleased my guys let me participate in the MOT I hate to think what would of happened if I had not been there

They even came in offering me a bottle of LHM to top it up again after the "geyser" incident (Had a bottle of LDS in the boot)

[GiveMeABreak]

I'm always present at mine - I just don't have total confidence in them generally I'm afraid as in the past I have had to intervene to stop the testers 'playing about' with things they have no need or right to.

[Harlequin]

disconnected the ecu and reconnected it - and voila its working again

got to love French cars