Well I have another one then !

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furriegurrie
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Re: Well I have another one then !

Post by furriegurrie »

Looks very similar to my 4hp20 that had died. Symptoms are the same too. In my case there was a bearing that was lacking 2 rollers that seem led to have been pulverized (if that is a word). They had completely dissapeared. The oilpump and it's bearing got damaged too. I think it started by the lockup clutch in the tc failing and the stuff clogging the filter so the oilpump could not get enough oil....

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Well I have another one then !

Post by Stickyfinger »

It is most a "paste", a little teasing and the hedgehog grew the spikes but it was a soft butter like "lump" on top of the magnet before I played with it. It does not feel gritty.

I have not tested the other lumps seen scatted on the sump pan yet. I will go up and do that now. (as the undersides are very dirty these could be from me removing the sump)

I do not have much hope for this box. I am sure now the oil has never been changes in its life, certainly this looks like the first time the sump has been removed.

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CitroJim
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Re: Well I have another one then !

Post by CitroJim »

furriegurrie wrote:In my case there was a bearing that was lacking 2 rollers that seem led to have been pulverized (if that is a word). They had completely dissapeared.
It's amazing how rollers can just disappear isn't it! Pulverised is an excellent word to describe it ;)

I fear there is likely a bearing breaking up here too...

We need to analyse the debris and see if there's any friction material present...

It's certainly looking like a gearbox rebuild or swap would be a good idea. Even if the filter is found clogged then a clean might restore drive for a while but it's unlikely to last...

I'd love to have a deeper look into this 'box...

Looking at it Alasdair, how easy does it look to remove the 'box complete? I have no definitive answer as to whether or not it can be removed without removing it complete with engine.

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Well I have another one then !

Post by Stickyfinger »

There are two very small 3-4mm by 2mm shards in the "paste....the paste is almost paint like but highly magnetic.

(shard shown)

Image

I cannot see much "glitter" in there, not copper or brass, personally I think it is buggered

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xantia_v6
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Re: Well I have another one then !

Post by xantia_v6 »

I don't think that that amount of "stuff" is unusual for a band-type transmission. It might be only halfway worn.

It is a pity that you don't have a better description of its symptoms, If it were mine, I would put it back together and drive it until something interesting happens.

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Well I have another one then !

Post by Stickyfinger »

There is about an amount equivalent to the size of a Werther's Original in total. Other than the two small shards there is a paste (as seen) which is neither gritty or with any brass residue in the sump. The paste is ferrous

I drove a short distance, about 2 miles, it lost drive in any position. Prior to that it was really very sooth and changed gear very smoothly.
I pulled over and selected park, it locked up.
I waited about ten mins, and it took drive again but only for a mile, it lost drive again.
I waited again and it drove, but now for a few 100 yrds before loosing drive again. I had to repeat this and each time it drove a shorter distance.

The next day it was only getting drive for a few yards, there was a slight "whirring" all the time from the box after each oil change.
" oil changes and three drains the oil is very black/dark grey.

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yannbeam
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Re: Well I have another one then !

Post by yannbeam »

If the filter is badly blocked the whirring noise could be the oil pump running dry. Low oil delivery and or pressure may be causing the lack of drive. In this case the damage may have already been done. If you do the filter please take lots of photos as I need to do the same to mine :wink:

Is the sump gasket made from cork ? I'm worried it might break up when I remove it as its probably been on there a long time.

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Well I have another one then !

Post by Stickyfinger »

Will do on the photos....forecast rain tomorrow so ....

Sump gasket is paper and stayed on the box, sump came off easy once the accumulator block was moved over, no need to undo the pipes just the two securing bolts to the body to give wriggle room to drop the sump off.

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demag
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Re: Well I have another one then !

Post by demag »

I had a Saab 900 with a box like that but it was pumping atf all over the road. I found the sump had hit something and was distorted. When I took it off I found the chewed up remains of an 8mm nut and plenty swarf in the bottom. I straightened it out with some judicious hammer work and refitted it and it ran great for a year but emitted a high pitched squeal over 70!

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Well I have another one then !

Post by Stickyfinger »

Just remembered, the new "whirring noise" started after the 2nd fill of new oil.....

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CitroJim
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Re: Well I have another one then !

Post by CitroJim »

Whirring noises in automatics are not good in my experience...

But...
xantia_v6 wrote:If it were mine, I would put it back together and drive it until something interesting happens.
I agree, I would, after inspecting/cleaning the filter ;)

I'm very keen to see the state of the filter...

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Mandrake
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Re: Well I have another one then !

Post by Mandrake »

Stickyfinger wrote: I drove a short distance, about 2 miles, it lost drive in any position. Prior to that it was really very sooth and changed gear very smoothly.
I pulled over and selected park, it locked up.
I waited about ten mins, and it took drive again but only for a mile, it lost drive again.
I waited again and it drove, but now for a few 100 yrds before loosing drive again. I had to repeat this and each time it drove a shorter distance.

The next day it was only getting drive for a few yards, there was a slight "whirring" all the time from the box after each oil change.
" oil changes and three drains the oil is very black/dark grey.
Stupid question, but are you sure the oil level is correct ? You're checking it with the engine idling, right ?

If it's checked with the engine off the level will measure higher therefore if you set the level here it will be low when the engine is running.

superloopy
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Re: Well I have another one then !

Post by superloopy »

'Moriarty' Mandrake [emoji18]

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Well I have another one then !

Post by Stickyfinger »

Yes: Level and Running, dipping level is correct.

FYI, 2.5ltrs drains each time.

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Well I have another one then !

Post by Stickyfinger »

Sump filter and the washed debris...shardenfuched I think.

Image
Image
Image

Filter back on, sump on, will refill and "give it a go" next week but I hold very little hope for this box,