Electric cars-Conversions

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Mandrake
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

"Volvo Cars says new generation of diesel engines could be the last: CEO"

http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKCN18D0Q7

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Mandrake
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

RichardW wrote:There was a report in Monday's Telegraph about a (very!) optimistic view that BEV will take over in < 10 years. It's still premium at present so you can't see all of it, I guess it will drop out of that soon: report. You can download the report it is reporting on here

That's Tony Seba - I posted youtube videos of his talks on the subject a month or two ago.

I agree that he is on the optimistic side - although his figures are based on direct extrapolation of current trends, you can never underestimate the unpredictable effects of prejudice among buyers, market inertia, the possibility that the charging infrastructure lags behind demand for Ev's, that the predicted 200+ mile range cars fail to appear on the market as "scheduled" by his predictions etc... or just that manufacturers may fail to provide the necessary model varieties required by the market. (Where are the estate EV's ? There isn't a single one yet as far as I'm aware, if you don't count car derived vans like the e NV-200, and estate cars is a significant chunk of the market)

Personally I think that in the passenger car market we could see more BEV's being sold new than Petrol/Diesel combined by 2025. I think that is eminently possible if the emissions regulations continue to squeeze down on Diesel and governments go ahead with their threatened bans in large cities, and if 200+ mile range EV's come down into the affordable price range, which I think they will well before 2025.

However Diesels/Petrol passenger cars will still be sold until about 2030 I think, and older ones will be driving around on our roads until at least 20-25 years from now.

Then you have certain types of vehicles that aren't well suited to current or near future BEV technology - things like police cars, ambulances, emergency vehicles etc that will at the very least need to remain hybrids (preferably of the range extender variety) for a long time yet, as they simply can't afford to run out of juice and be off the road for a long time to charge. A range extender hybrid is a decent compromise here, as the majority of the mileage can be done as a pure EV with the range extender only kicking in in the rare circumstances it might be needed.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out though, and see when the actual tipping point will be. (Depending on how you define tipping point ?) I also predict that Hydrogen fuel cell will never be any more than a small niche for cars and will flop within 10 years, and the only market where it looks like it might get a foothold is in long haul trucking and perhaps aircraft. I definitely don't see it taking off for passenger cars as there is just too much complexity and too many drawbacks compared to the greater simplicity and efficiency of a BEV.

By the way, I don't by the "Transportation as a service" argument from that article - we already have that, it's called trains and buses, and nobody likes them. :twisted: Replacing a bus with an autonomous car that fetches you like an uber won't cut it for most people. Whether right or wrong, I think people that drive today will still want to own or lease their own car and don't want to rely on an available car coming to them and driving them somewhere. A car is viewed as a cherished possession or status symbol by many people, not simply a way to get from A to B economically.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

CitroJim wrote:Gosh :shock:

That's quick!

Here's the onboard video of the 6:45 lap, just released. Who says EV racing vehicles sound boring ? :)

Different certainly, but it has its own characteristic sound.


mickeymoon

Re: RE: Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by mickeymoon »

Mandrake wrote:
CitroJim wrote:Gosh :shock:

That's quick!

Here's the onboard video of the 6:45 lap, just released. Who says EV racing vehicles sound boring ? :)
Me. Sounds like my son's Scalextric. I've been to Formula E race too, it's just "wrong".

I presume future generations who haven't been brought up on screaming Ferrari F1 V12 engines or the howl of the later F1 V10 and V8 motors will find the sound of e-racing normal, but for me it just doesn't float my boat at all!

This is how a race engine should sound (IMO!)


Last edited by myglaren on 18 May 2017, 06:40, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: YouTube tags

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Mandrake wrote: Different certainly, but it has its own characteristic sound.



"Interesting" youtube comments section as ever with with the usual fights and disrespect amongst the combatants, but the occasional gem of wit...

"would you like some cheese with your wine" :)

Regards Neil

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Re: RE: Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

mickeymoon wrote: Me. Sounds like my son's Scalextric. I've been to Formula E race too, it's just "wrong".

I presume future generations who haven't been brought up on screaming Ferrari F1 V12 engines or the howl of the later F1 V10 and V8 motors will find the sound of e-racing normal, but for me it just doesn't float my boat at all!

This is how a race engine should sound (IMO!)



I can't say I've ever been a fan of the super high revving sound of Formula 1 cars - it doesn't float my boat at all! I actually prefer the sound of the NIO that I just posted. I do like the sound of V6's and V8's in the more "normal" rev range though. I like the sound of my Xantia V6 a lot when you blast it through the gears, but I don't miss the sound when I'm driving the EV! It's just a different driving experience.

I don't think liking both is necessarily mutually exclusive. :)

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Re: RE: Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by CitroJim »

Mandrake wrote:I can't say I've ever been a fan of the super high revving sound of Formula 1 cars - it doesn't float my boat at all!


I quite agree, the noise makes me cringe and unsettled, sounding to me like an engine in severe and terminal distress. Not pleasant at all. No way could I ever enjoy F1 or any other mechanically-aided so-called racing with that hideous soundtrack.

Now a Xantia V6 engine on full-chat is, as you say Simon, a beautiful sound :)

So is a V8 too...

Maybe I can enjoy Formula E but unless it's close, tight racing and not an F1-esque procession then I'll not bother. The last F1 races I saw were as exciting to me as watching the grass grow in my garden. Turn down the sound and perfect for sending me to sleep...

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by demag »

I like the big cycling tours. Giro on right now.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by CitroJim »

demag wrote:I like the big cycling tours. Giro on right now.


Indeed, and it's getting exciting :)

I'm always saddened at how poorly cycle racing is covered by the usual suspects in the UK.

This overwhelming fetish and bias all sports programmes and reports have with football is very much at the detriment to all other sports... I'm always so glad when the footballs season ends and we have an (albeit far too) brief but very welcome break from it.

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Re: RE: Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

CitroJim wrote:
Mandrake wrote:I can't say I've ever been a fan of the super high revving sound of Formula 1 cars - it doesn't float my boat at all!


I quite agree, the noise makes me cringe and unsettled, sounding to me like an engine in severe and terminal distress. Not pleasant at all. No way could I ever enjoy F1 or any other mechanically-aided so-called racing with that hideous soundtrack.

Now a Xantia V6 engine on full-chat is, as you say Simon, a beautiful sound :)

So is a V8 too...

Maybe I can enjoy Formula E but unless it's close, tight racing and not an F1-esque procession then I'll not bother. The last F1 races I saw were as exciting to me as watching the grass grow in my garden. Turn down the sound and perfect for sending me to sleep...

Although I don't really watch any motor racing these days (too little time to catch it and figure out what channel it is on and when) the two main ones I used to watch religiously were the WRC rallying, especially during the "golden era" of Citroen dominance (2003 to about 2012 ish) and touring car racing in particular Bathhurst, especially when it was mixed classes competing (back in the 90's ?) and not just all V8 supercars. :lol:

Formula 1 never did anything for me, I guess because its too far removed from the cars that I drive, whereas a rally car or even a V8 "supercar" I can recognise as something a lot closer to a road car than something like Formula 1 that is purely designed to meet the specifications of that type of racing.

mickeymoon

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Post by mickeymoon »

Mandrake wrote:
Formula 1 never did anything for me, I guess because its too far removed from the cars that I drive, whereas a rally car or even a V8 "supercar" I can recognise as something a lot closer to a road car
I think modern F1 is nearer to road car tech than either WRC or Aussie V8s than you might imagine, given the emphasis on efficiency, battery power and energy recovery. A Merc F1 V6 ICE motor is now at an amazing level of 50% thermal efficiency, somewhat higher than a road car with 28-30%. It's even more efficient than any electric car that's charged with power generated by burning hydrocarbons which are generally only around 33% efficient. Makes Formula E look a bit silly when viewed in such light, especially as they're slower than F4 cars !

I'd have thought all that technology and energy recovery would have been right up your street Mandrake :)



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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I caught some of the Spanish F1 Grand Prix recently. It was far better than the races of a few years ago, as it was much more of a race than a procession. When you see Lewis Hamilton afterwards you can see his is exhausted, as he really had to work for the win. However, if you were to ask him what type of race he would honestly prefer I believe that a race he had to work for would be much more appreciated than one that was of little effort.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

"Audi tells dealerships to get behind electric vehicles because it will dominate the market within 10 years"

https://electrek.co/2017/01/31/audi-dea ... -vehicles/

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Mandrake wrote:"Audi tells dealerships to get behind electric vehicles because it will dominate the market within 10 years"

https://electrek.co/2017/01/31/audi-dea ... -vehicles/


I like to plough through the "comments" section...and within it there is a link to this, an hour long presentation by Tony Seba. There is plenty of interest in it, although I will have to give it another go to finish it off, as I literally fell asleep half way through. Still he got to the bit where he was describing LIDAR sensors employed in self-driving cars, and the cost reductions from $70,000 in 2012 to $250 in 2016.



Regards Neil

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

Looks like the same video I posted a couple of months ago ;)