Electric vehicles-Conversions

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Gibbo2286
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Sloppysod wrote:The 215 mile range quoted for the LDV, was that empty or loaded, as surely, just like the oil burners, the more load the more power is needed!!

Sorry but can not see a (BEV) Electric Van being any good, really needs to be powered by a hydrogen Fuel-cell to get a usable the range.
The thing about vans Sloppy is that they're rarely loaded to capacity.

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Mandrake
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

Also regenerative braking on an EV significantly reduces the energy cost of moving heavier loads, because although it takes more energy to accelerate a heavier load you also get back a lot more regeneration energy when you decelerate the heavier load.

The end result is you only pay a penalty for a portion of the load you carry not the whole load. So the effect on range would be a lot less than you'd think.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by elma »

Much more room for batteries on a van too.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Came across this via a post on SpeakEV on the Renault Fluence and its battery pack.

http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?pro ... ace&cat=23

Its EVTV. Plenty of detail, but I think the "presenters" are a bit of an acquired taste and their programmes are very long!

http://evtv.me/2017/03/4116/

latest programme...


Regards Neil

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

...and anyone contemplating a battery lease, or a secondhand EV with a battery lease this thread from the renaultzeforum.com is worth reading from start to finish.

http://www.renaultzeforum.com/forums/Th ... ASE?page=1

Regards Neil

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:...and anyone contemplating a battery lease, or a secondhand EV with a battery lease this thread from the renaultzeforum.com is worth reading from start to finish.

http://www.renaultzeforum.com/forums/Th ... ASE?page=1
Wow. :shock:

I think that pretty much confirms our worst fears of what a terrible, sticky situation it is to own a car with a battery lease, and that they will NOT let you buy out the lease, and that almost nobody (even most dealers) will touch a second hand car with a battery lease agreement. It's just a giant albatross when it comes time to sell it. The guy just about had to beg someone to take it and even considered destroying the car "accidentally" to get an insurance payout it was so hard to get rid of it without massive losses.

Buying a new car with a battery lease is stupid and short sighted, buying a second hand car with a battery lease is outright insanity! :shock:

Anyone even thinking about it should read that thread and DON'T DO IT. It's tempting because there are a lot of Leaf's on autotrader etc for "good" prices, but when you check the fine print nearly all of those cheap low mileage ones are not battery inclusive. If it says "Flex" anywhere in the ad it is a battery lease. Most ZOE's are also battery lease although some can be found that are battery inclusive. If you are buying the very first thing to check is to get in writing that it is battery inclusive!

The sad thing is I can see a lot of innocent first time EV buyers who are not up on the finer points of the true long term implications of a battery lease and the inability to cancel or buy it out, who will end up in a very bad situation when they come to sell, and blame it on EV's in general. It certainly doesn't help the adoption of EV's, nor does it help with the perception of high depreciation rates of EV's due to the battery lease artificially suppressing the resale value!

One reason I went for an Ion not a Leaf or similar (apart from it being half the price...) is that all Ion's are battery inclusive. Battery inclusive is the only option I would have ever considered. I'd rather be stuck with the very remote possibility of the battery failing than have a car that has ongoing payments that would wreck my credit rating if I refused to pay them, and which I'd be almost unable to sell, except to another sucker who doesn't understand the implications of the lease. [-X

Also as we've seen in a thread I linked not long ago it is actually possible to repair the battery pack in an Ion if a cell did fail - the diagnostic software necessary is available (Diagbox, or Canion) and as long as you can get your hands on a replacement cell all that is really needed is a car lift and a trolley and about a days worth of time to strip open the pack carefully and replace the cell... The full documentation to safely remove the pack from the car is available online, (for the i-MiEV, but it's identical in this regard) and I've already read through it.

I don't expect to ever have to do this in the time I'll keep the car but it is reassuring to know it is at least possible for a determined DIY'er.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

....Bit out of date now...this little video from Renault introduces their offer at the tme of the ZE launch. Even includes reference the ill-fated battery swop "quick-drop" infrastructure tried out in Israel and Denmark through the "Better Place" project. Surplus battery packs in nearly new condition became available and the chaps at EVTV came up with some one-off deals at around $3,999 for those packs back in 2014, although now they appear to be offered at $8,995. An industry will develop, and prices will come down, for new and reconditioned battery packs and other EV components.

The Fluence is a very nice car in my opinion, and it continues to be manufactured in South Korea under another name. Its a great shame that the inflexible battery lease arrangements rule it out for serious consideration. Still if you can pick one up for £1,500, remove the battery in 3 minutes (it was designed so the "quick drop" robots could do it in this time!), send it back to RCI/Renault Finance to terminate the lease properly, and shove a nearly new/renovated pack in at £3500 ish you may still have a very nice EV to run around for 8 years in, although by the time that time elapses the range of a 14year old EV, compared to what you might get new will be poles apart :)



Regards Neil

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Just as an illustration of how things have moved on in the last 5 years or so a couple more videos of the Renault Fluence at its launch time. The fully charged one really does give anyone the opportunity to rip into the "Brand Manager" Renault electric vehicles in the UK at the time sitting in the passenger seat next to Robert Llewellyn in the fully charged video. With the benefit of hindsight of course.....what a load of BS...

..bit of waffling by Robert before the review starts....



..and another contemporary review of the Fluence where the chap is driving it around Liverpool...apparently only 1 public charging point and that one out at Aintree at the time :!: :!:



Regards Neil

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by myglaren »

:offtopic:

This really doesn't belong in here but there isn't another obvious appropriate place for it so imagine it being electrically powered.

The Local

/ :offtopic:

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by elma »

I really like that

mickeymoon

Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by mickeymoon »

Having previously said that a Leaf wouldn't work for me, having driven one, I find myself doing the sums and checking the miles, and I find myself increasingly drawn to them.

I could pick up something like this, with the battery owned, and it would pay for itself reasonably quickly.

https://tinyurl.com/kb9vf5k

Our 207 has managed 41.4 mpg over the 6000 miles we've had it (that's off the fuel computer I reset the day I bought it) and the Berlingo 43mpg over the last 10,500 miles. That's as near as damnit £2370 on fuel and road tax in 12 months. As the cost of fuel can only rise, a Leaf would pay for itself reasonably quickly when one takes into account the road tax, the cheaper insurance (for me, at least), lack of some servicing costs, free charging points at work. I'd imagine it wouldn't ruin tyres as quickly as a remapped Berlingo, or leak oil like a TU engined 207 too, and would probably work. Range? My work round trip is a 42 miles, it would do that easily. Her indoors doesn't do a huge mileage either. Keeping one of the fossil fueled cars for longer journeys would suit us just fine.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Peter.N. »

myglaren wrote::offtopic:

This really doesn't belong in here but there isn't another obvious appropriate place for it so imagine it being electrically powered.

The Local

/ :offtopic:
I like it, have to watch for woodworm though.

Peter

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Saw a Volvo plugged into a charging point at Nortumberlandia Car park today

Electric Car Charging Point at Northumberlandia
Image

© David Dixon[/a], [url=http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/]cc-by-sa.

A product of the Zhejiang Geely Holding Group Co., Ltd making it to Northumberland :!:


One of these I think

http://cdn1.autoexpress.co.uk/sites/aut ... k=7cbMKNz_



Regards Neil

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myglaren
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by myglaren »

It would have been on it's way to Scotland :)

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CitroJim
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by CitroJim »

Gosh :shock: What's happened to Volvo? They've adopted the truly bland anonymous eurobox styling cues with vengeance and made something look truly boring and about as desirable as a pound of rancid butter...

Bring back the ruler and the no-nonsense Swedish attitude please!