Electric cars-Conversions

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Gibbo2286
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I've just had a wander through the Nissan Leaf web pages, this is the comments page, they nearly all have the same worry, 'range anxiety'.

http://review.nissan.co.uk/GB/en/vehicl ... views.html

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Post by Peter.N. »

They will be offering treatment for it on the NHS when we get a few more electric cars.

Peter

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by RichardW »

VED is just another revenue stream for HMG. As times change so will the tax.... the lower rate for smaller engine cars only applies to pre-2001 cars where the CO2 was evalutated - this was the first incentive to try and limit emissions. Since 2001 it has been focused on promoting lower CO2. NOX worries seem to have suddenly come to the fore - perhaps because we are over the EU limit, and in danger of getting fined - it seems to have suddenly got high profile, and some of the stories seem hard to believe - wasn't there one this week that suggested half of child deaths were NOX related? How come no one's made a fuss about that before? In another 7 or so years, Euro6 will have been around 10 years, and most cars will be 'compliant' which should see a reduction in NOX, if the cars are indeed the source. So, possibly a back loading of VED for pre-E6 cars coming up? Can't see it would be more than £100 a year though, which is not likely to put that many off the road.

Currently EVs have no fuel or road taxation, which is mostly the reason they look attractive from a cost point of view (see my earlier calc) - if there is wholesale take up of EVs then this revenue stream will have to be replaced - so either EVs are going to have to be taxed on 'fuel'; which seems a bit difficult, or there will have to be pay as you drive charging - perhaps via an annual charge related to mileage at MOT or sale time? - or there will have to be a rise in some other taxation; 5p on income tax anybody?

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white exec
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by white exec »

I believe that CO2 output is a lot easier to "rate" as it is directly proportional to the amount of fuel that the vehicle uses, whether diesel or petrol. NOx/particulates figures much more complex to establish, as we know.

You are right, Simon. BEVs will enjoy something of a honeymoon tax-wise, to kick-start (no pun intended) their uptake. Eventually, perhaps we would see revenue collected being based on actual road usage - where, when, how long for, etc - via telematics . . . . . Congestion charges automatically collected.

No mention of the revised VEDs in Hammond's broadcast statement, IIRC - one of the 'advantages' of regulations only coming into force 'at a future date'.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I'd guess that electric used for car fuel will have a fuel duty and VAT at standard rate added and the 5% domestic energy rate will be used solely for that, ........................................smart meters are coming and there are all sorts of possibilities for their use, governments aren't pressing for them for only the users benefit.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by elma »

I was very lucky to have a drive in the bosses new I8 today. All I can say is WOW! It's incredible, electrics amazing. Very fast and smooth. In engine only mode the 1.5 turbo even sounds better than my Xantia. I had a very pleasurable drive. The pickup is incredible it goes 30 - a lot more than I'll admit in public in the blink of an eye.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

Gibbo2286 wrote:I'd guess that electric used for car fuel will have a fuel duty and VAT at standard rate added and the 5% domestic energy rate will be used solely for that, ........................................smart meters are coming and there are all sorts of possibilities for their use, governments aren't pressing for them for only the users benefit.
It's not practical to charge road tax for EV's at the point of charging - too many different ways to charge EV's (including using standard BT 3 pin plugs with no intelligence or communication back to the grid!) to make that practical.

Also, what about people with solar panels - should they get free road tax on their EV's when those who charge EV's off the grid are charged ? Doesn't seem very fair. Either all EV's get taxed or none. Expect a massive rush on Solar panels otherwise. (Not that encouraging solar panels is a bad thing!)

What will probably happen eventually is un-bundling road tax from the price of petrol and diesel, replaced by a mileage based road tax that applies to all vehicles whether EV or ICE. This is already how it has worked for years in New Zealand for Diesel cars as there is no road tax on Diesel there. You pay a much cheaper price for Diesel at the pump (less than half of petrol) and pay a yearly road tax that is based on the number of miles driven in that year and the vehicle category. (Car, Van, truck etc) There is no such thing as red Diesel testing there as all Diesel excludes road tax. As the MOT is 6 monthly and mileage is recorded during the test there is no way to cheat the system and lie about mileage either.

Fairer too, because the tax can be based on miles travelled and class of vehicle - which is more proportional to the amount of road wear and tear caused by the vehicle than the quantity of petrol/diesel/electricity consumed. (Does my gas guzzling Xantia V6 do any more road damage or cause any more congestion than an HDI110 Xantia ? No, but with road tax incorporated in the fuel price I pay more road tax than the Diesel does per mile. With it un-bundled and based on mileage I would pay a fair amount)

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by elma »

Is vehicle clocking a big issue over there?

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Gibbo2286 »

elma wrote:Is vehicle clocking a big issue over there?
Probably not, their biggest problem is unregistered and untested vehicles, the policing is fairly lax and the penalties low so at the moment it's a widespread choice to take the gamble.

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Post by Mandrake »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
elma wrote:Is vehicle clocking a big issue over there?
Probably not, their biggest problem is unregistered and untested vehicles, the policing is fairly lax and the penalties low so at the moment it's a widespread choice to take the gamble.
Not to mention car insurance is not compulsory or required there. A large proportion (20-40% at a guess ?) drive without any insurance. I know I did for years, and got away with it because I was careful (or lucky ?) not to get into any real accidents. (The one crash I did have wasn't my fault, but it turns out the other driver wasn't insured either...) It's a very different climate there, in terms of running a car.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

PSA developing their own EV ?

http://www.nextgreencar.com/news/7639/n ... en-and-ds/

The C-Zero/Ion are of course OEM'ed by Mitsubishi with minimal customisation by PSA, the only other EV's PSA have done are the Peugeot Partner and Berlingo some 15 or so years ago!

Time to get cracking Citroen/Peugeot, before you get left behind...

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Did you see the date on that piece mandrake?

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Mandrake
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Post by Mandrake »

Yep, but I hadn't come across it before, and it hasn't been mentioned in this thread to date so I thought it was worth pointing out that our beloved French Marquees are not actually sitting on their hands as it first appears. :lol:

I'll believe it when I see it of course.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by white exec »

Went to our Toyota parts counter this morning for a couple of bits. Several cars being shunted around in the worshop area, into and out of service bays, and on to ramps. Apart from the sound of tyres turning on the painted concrete, there was hardly a sound, and the air was fresh. All the cars involved were Hybrids, using their 'shunting' facility.

Not that I'm a fan of hybrids, especially the limited-range sort peddled by Toyota marketing. But the quietness and clean air is a welcome sign of future times. Raul, the partsman, looked philosophical. I'm sure that Toyota will find ways of keeping him in a job.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

I very much notice the output of the ICE these days as mentioned before, it would make a phenomenal difference were electric vehicles to take over as the normal choice for the public in general.

..and after having spent a couple of days doing home mechanicing on my 'Fleet' ICE's, and their various fluids are hideously dirty, despite the de rigeur use of the blue gloves, every piece of mechanicing attire becomes infused with the said fluids and dirt!

EV's win on the dirt factor too.....and on not having use or dispose of engine oil, exhausts etc.

Regards Neil