Electric vehicles-Conversions

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

It's French !
It's 100% Electric.
Nice colour.
Looks fun;

....and it has a lithium polymer solid state battery pack reputedly 160 mile range;

....and this second hand example has an asking price of 7,800 Euros.
(Maybe some small print in French to get google to help with...)

Worth a look :?:

It's here :!:
'
https://www.leboncoin.fr/voitures/10836 ... tm?ca=12_s

Regards Neil

U.K. Glossy brochure here. http://www.citroen.co.uk/new-cars-and-v ... n-e-mehari

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

..and the vital statistics courtesy of google translate
OPERATION DESTOCKING MORE THAN SOME AVAILABLE MODELS NEW STATE
EXCEPTIONAL RATE: 7800 €
Commissioning: 12/02/2015
Mileage: 1350km
Engine
Power: 35 kw nominal / 55 kw max
Drums (correction google should have translated as "Battery")
Type: BATSCAP Lithium polymer metal (solid electrolyte)
Power: 30 kw / h
Voltage Rating: 410 v
Internal temperature: + 60 ° C / + 80 ° C
The operating temperature of the LMP (60 ° / 85 °) battery requires the user
To connect your vehicle to a power outlet during a prolonged shutdown.
Stoppage of more than 48 hours results in complete discharge of the battery.

Recharge
Plug type: Domestic NF 2x10 / 16A + T
Recharge time: 8 h / 10 h Charging cable supplied
Autonomy: Urban Cycle: 250 km, Extra-urban cycle: 100km

Speed:
Maximum speed: 110 km / h (limited electronically)
Roll mode: normal mode / rain mode
Acceleration: from 0 to 60 km / h in 6.3 s

contact :
FOSSARD JY / SYLVAIN DUMONT
05 57 89 19 91
It doesn't say anything about it in the details given, but there probably is some kind of battery rental arrangement to add on I would think.

Regards Neil

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demag
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by demag »

That looks ok.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

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Mandrake
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

Found a print article going into more detail about the sodium based solid state batteries:

https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/good ... technology

Very interesting, including the 3x energy density over lithium ion - that alone is a game changer! Then add greater cycle life, being non-explosive and faster to charge and you have a winner if it can be made cost effectively...

Could this be the final piece in the puzzle for ubiquitous BEV uptake ?

Maybe it's not a good idea to invest in Lithium mines after all - invest in sea water! :-D

(PS pity the author of the story got anode and cathode back to front, that annoyed me. :lol: )

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

On my personal quest for a cheap commuter EV I checked autotrader for C-Zero's and Ion's last night and found 4 in total, 3 of interest.

The best one is this lovely C-Zero in Red:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/ ... 3022840252

£5850 - at the top end of what I'd be willing to pay, but only 8000 miles and a 2013 model, so only 3-4 years old. =D> Absolutely perfect, except for one tiny detail. It's a private sale some 355 miles from me! #-o I'm assuming from that its somewhere in Cornwall. :lol:

The problem with that is even if I had the money ready to go I'd have to either buy it sight unseen and have it shipped up to me - not good when I've still not seen one in the flesh to work out whether we can get our baby seat and stroller crammed into the thing and I have never driven one before... or fly/train down to who knows where, look at the car, arrange insurance on the spot, pay for it in cash (which I don't have as I'd need to finance) and then start an arduous 355 mile journey home in a car that can realistically do about 50 miles per charge at motorway speeds and is not designed for long journeys.

That means around 8-10 rapid charges on the way home each one taking about 30 minutes, (so 5 hours sitting charging ) and costing anything between free and £6 depending on the charge point, and not using the heating to squeeze the range out of it. Brr! If one rapid charger was out of operation I'd be stranded. Jonathan from ecocars makes a living out of doing this but I'm not that game with no prior experience under my belt! So the exact car I want, even the colour, but right at the top of my price range and totally infeasible for me to buy and get home due to it being a private sale and so far away. Pity! :(

Next up is this Peugeot Ion:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/ ... 1141298838

A bit cheaper at £5295 and much closer at 136 miles away. Also a lovely Blue that I'd be perfectly happy with. A 2011 model so 5-6 years old. One problem - for only a few hundred pounds less it has done nearly 22k miles. :? Now on any normal car that would be nothing - the lowest mileage car I've ever bought in my life is 65k! And the newest car I've ever bought is 8 years old. However being electric there is always the concern of the battery life. Has the battery been well looked after or has it been abused ? Without driving the car and checking its range, who knows. It's still a long trek away to even see the car and is simply not good value compared to the first car. Oh well.

Number three is this Peugeot Ion:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/ ... 3022855033

Also a 2011 model year so 5-6 years old, and a slightly higher mileage at 23k miles. It's also Silver, which is not a favourite colour of mine. In fact after owning a Silver Xantia V6 I said I wouldn't own a Silver car again! :lol: However it has two major things going for it. One is that it is only £4200, so massively cheaper than the blue one, and two, its in Glasgow, 12 miles from me at a dealer!!! :-D

Seats look slightly grubby and worn to me and I can see a few marks on the back bumper, but it otherwise looks sound. My big question is, can I get over the fact that it's Silver, and am I willing to take a gamble on a 23k mileage electric car ? Early Leaf's are notorious for battery range loss with mileage but from the research I have done the i Miev / Ion / C-Zero batteries seem to be lasting unusually well with relatively little range loss at 20k. However I have to consider that I'd do about 6k a year in it, so if I took it out over 3 years the car would have done around 40k miles by the time I'd paid it off. Will the battery still be OK then ? Manufacturers battery warranty is 8 years, so it has only about 2 and a bit years left on that warranty, while the red one would still have 4 and a bit years left on the battery warranty at the moment.

Of the three its the only one I could realistically buy and get back home - its a lot cheaper, its at a dealer (so easier to arrange finance than a private sale) and its right in Glasgow, so I could both go and view/test drive the car even if I don't buy it, and if I did buy it I could catch the train in to collect it and drive it home easily on a single charge. :) (And not spend the cost of catching a train/plane and driving it home from hundreds of miles away!)

So I'm thinking its definitely worth my while to try to get a test drive of it and get a chance to try to stuff my baby seat and stroller into it, possibly even Saturday week, assuming it is still there. I'm not keen on Silver but as the whole point of this car would be very utilitarian as a low cost commuter and shopping buggy I really shouldn't be quibbling over the colour.... In which case it all comes down to the condition of the car and the range of the battery and whether I'm willing to take a gamble on a 23k mile battery... I feel like I'm almost in a "put my money where my mouth is" situation here. :rofl2:

I don't want to rush into anything until the money situation is right either - from what I understand all C-Zero's and Ion's were leased for 4 years when new not sold outright. That means that while there are only a few hundred of each in the country, as they come off the 4 year lease and go back to the leasing company they then go onto the second hand market. So it seems like there is a small but steady trickle of second hand cars as they come off lease, so I shouldn't be worried about the supply of them drying up any time soon, especially when they are probably hard to shift to prospective buyers who are put off by the short range! Finding another one as close as Glasgow might be difficult though.

Edit: One other thing to consider with the price of these cars is that they didn't originally ship with a type 1 to type 2 cable, only with a "granny cable" which lets you plug into a 3 pin plug. That means if you are charging away from home you can only use the Chademo rapid chargers, which are a lot less common than the Type 2 connector used for most fast charging points. (Chademo chargers have their own tethered cable)

For slow and fast (not rapid) charging the C-Zero/Ion uses the US/Japan J1772 Type 1 plug not the more common Type 2 plug used in Europe/UK, so to plug into any Type 2 charging posts you need a Type 1 to Type 2 cable like this:

http://www.evcables.co.uk/247/Type-1-to ... able-Black

or this coiled one:

http://www.evcables.co.uk/194/Coiled-Ty ... ing-Cables

Jonathan of ecocars bundles such a cable on any C-Zero/Ion that he sells which doesn't already have one, however its likely that none of the three above include this Type 1 to Type 2 cable unless the previous owner bought one and left it with the car.

Buying such a cable is around £100-£150 but is highly worth it in fact almost essential if you ever plan to charge away from home anywhere like a car park, so needs to be factored into the purchase cost if the car doesn't already come with one!

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by RichardW »

The red one is <30 miles from my Father in law's, and we are down there in 3 weeks. If it's still for sale, and you're interested, I'll go and have a look at it. There are probably ways of getting it delivered, eg via Shiply, if it's the one!!

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

Thanks for the offer Richard. I think realistically the Red car is a bit pie in the sky and too much of a stretch cost wise, especially when you include the cost and hassle to get it back up here.

I'm sure its condition will be excellent at that age and mileage, however as I've not yet had a chance to see one in the flesh and drive it, check the luggage space etc I don't even know if the model is suitable for our needs or not. Which is why looking at the one in Glasgow appeals - at least I would get a chance to see it and hopefully drive it and confirm whether the model meets our needs or not.

Sadly it looks like the one in Glasgow might already be gone! The listing is on autotrader but when I look on the dealers website it is not there even though most of the other ones listed on autotrader are. So I suspect it is recently sold and they haven't pulled the listing off autotrader yet! I might give them a call to see if they still have it but I don't think I'd have any chance to look at it until next weekend by which time it might be gone anyway.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by RichardW »

No problem; offer still stands if you need to take it up!

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

Here is a talk from March 2016 predicting the rate of improvements and drop in cost of EV's:



The conclusion is, the end of new oil powered cars by 2030, with a tipping point where an EV makes more sense than a conventional car as soon as 2020-2025.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by harryp »

5 years to use our toys to the full I guess :wink: ; then what I wonder? Will we be allowed to use them or trailer them to "shows" or will the whole genre be consigned to the scrapyard? The rate of change is quite an eye-opener; probably unprecedented in recent times as it is not the incremental evolution of ICE powered vehicles we have become used to over the last 100 years or so. The mind boggles, my flabber is properly ghasted :o .
Regards

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

The talk is referring to new car sales. Obviously second hand sales of ICE cars will continue on for another 10-15 years past new sales unless they are regulated off the road. So I expect to still see plenty of old banger ICE cars on the road in 2030 albeit maybe not in places like central London!

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Apart from my natural aversion to a bloke in a shirt and tie with his little zapper doing a "powerpointesque" presentation, I enjoyed his conclusions, and sincerely hope that the tipping point does arrive 2020-2025 or even sooner. The market for vehicles world-wide is absolurtely staggering in size. You only have to look at your own little part of the world, the car parks, the busy trunk roads and dual carriageways to regognise that the current penetration of BEV's, today March 4th 2017 is very small, and there is a long way to go.

My own little part of the world is right at the end of the range in terms of commuting distance to the closest major urban area of Tyneside 30-40 miles out, and I would say, as I take an interest in these things and have talked to many of those owners personally, that there are around a dozen or so households that have a 100% electric vehicle. Virtually all of those households have another ICE vehicle, and the electric vehicle of choice is a Nissan Leaf.

There is a lot of talk about the PSA take over of Vauxhall/Opel and the possible consequences for Luton/ Ellesmere Port factories. Over in the US whatever your opinion of the vehicle is, GM have produced the Chevrolet Bolt which currently is one of the best EV's available....but not of course in the UK and no plans to either. At the moment its well done NISSAN for their pioneering with the Leaf, but to take EV Ownership forward in the UK we need models like the Chevy Bolt available here, and better still manufactured or at least assembled here.

Regards Neil

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by myglaren »

The shift to electric cars could come sooner than expected, precipitated by the closure of the petrochemical industry.
The Indy

It looks like a green light for PSA to acquire Opel too: The Beeb.

An Opel is the only GM car I have owned. Crap and cheap (£40) and lasted for ages.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

In 2016 there was a record 2.69 Million new car registrations in the UK, why wait for TESLA/GM/BYD/Google/Uber etc to meet our Electric Car needs in 2020-2025 and grab their share of the market. Nice and sarcastic comment on an Elektrek article in relation to "Europeans" competing for TESLA to build one of their Gigafactories in their country (have to say the UK isnt even in the queue never mind at the back of it :-D )
from https://electrek.co/2016/11/29/tesla-gi ... h-efforts/
Comment from Ian
Why bother with Tesla, these countries could build their own gigafactories, goodness me, Tesla's technology is Panasonic's. Any old fool can construct a large factory shed and place lithium cell manufacturing machines in it. Do Renault, or Volvo, or Fiat or Daimler not know how to make objects or put manufacturing robots in a factory building? Seriously, it's like having MacDonalds restaurants in France, or Dominoes pizzas in Italy. What's wrong with you Europeans . I think I will sell toy bricks to the Danish, and Flat pack furniture to the Swedes, or perhaps set up a charity to help Europeans tie their own shoe laces
Time overdue for the strong goals and targets, and policies to encourage from Government, and for entrepreneurs to take risks and secure investments, get the shoelaces tied and transform our own auto-industry in the UK. It's future seems clearly to be not building ICE engines, Cars vans buses and trucks, and the sooner the transformation is started/completed the better.

Regards Neil

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

I posed this question a few pages back now
Is there a single auto-company now that doesn't have an electric option? Will have to look up Morgan but it wouldn't surprise me if by now they have!
....and yes they do...



Regards Neil