Electric vehicles-Conversions

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RichardW
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by RichardW »

My F-I-L will be 70 in a couple of weeks - he was at our house last year, and did 15 days decorating straight. My Dad is a couple of years off 70, and is just setting off to completely re-hash the CH and HW system in his house. I hope to be sporting a similar level of capability and fitness at the same age and beyond!

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CitroJim
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by CitroJim »

Richard, that's excellent... I do hope to be that able in 12 years time too!

I hope too I'll still be running, cycling, swimming, kayaking and practicing karate...

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Mandrake
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

RichardW wrote: Doesn't work for me yet - not enough range even for commute; and I keep needing to use the 307 for family duty when the C4 is off colour (as it is at present with a duff wheelbearing!).
That reminds me of a car we haven't talked about at all yet - the Chevy Bolt. Mainly because it won't be available in the UK! #-o

The Bolt (not to be confused with the earlier much shorter range Volt) is the first non-Tesla EV that will do well over 200 miles on a charge as far as I'm aware, with an EPA rating of 238 miles per charge. It's also the first non-Tesla to have a battery as big as 60kWh as far as I know.

To give some perspective, the C-Zero battery is 16kWh to get about 60 miles, the original Zoe is 21kWh to get about 80 miles, the original leaf is 24kWh also to also get about 80 miles.

The new Zoe is 41kWh to get about 150 miles, the current model Leaf is also about 40kWh and also around 150 miles I believe. So GM really have leapfrogged the pack by releasing a 60kWh battery and 238 mile EPA range a full year before the Tesla model 3 is due, which at the time of announcement claimed a range of 215 miles with an unspecified battery size. (but will probably be tweaked to be more by release time)

It's also a full year or so before the 2018 Leaf is due with a 60kWh battery and similar range. So what are it's other specs ? Here is an article:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/che ... olt-review

1624Kg curb weight (pretty light for a mid size EV with 60kWh battery!) of which 436Kg is the floor mounted battery, which is also a structural member of the body..

197bhp and 266lb/ft front wheel drive with a 0-60 of 6.5 seconds, so pretty quick. Top speed electronically limited to 93mph. Without the federal tax credit the true cost is about $30,000 US so cheaper than the anticipated price of the Tesla Model 3.

In Europe it will be sold as the Opel Ampera-E, but as they won't be making any RHD models it won't be available in the UK! [-X :roll:

It really does look like 60kWh is about the battery size required to get into the "over 200 mile per charge" club, where you could start to reasonably claim that range is no longer an issue for normal passenger car use.
RichardW wrote:
service.citroen wrote:Part Number Description Quantity Price excl. VAT Price incl. VAT Total incl. VAT Selection
1609857580 BATTERY 10,995.94 GBP 13,195.13 GBP 13,195.13 GBP
:shock: :lol:
Typical Citroen spin the wheel and see what price stops at the pointer! I suspect that price still reflects the original cost to build the battery in 2011... I don't believe for a second that a replacement battery costs them anything like that much to produce when they can sell the whole car new for £13,000 in the last year or so... also in the Bolt article above, GM revealed the manufacturing cost of their 60kWh battery (a far more advanced and higher density battery) to be $8700 - which is pretty reasonable for the biggest battery of any non-Tesla on sale to date I think!

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

What's the electric vehicle which has the greatest range....how about 1,200 miles?
Carrying 100 kilograms of compressed hydrogen on board to power its 300kW fuel cell and its 320 KWh lithium battery pack, under an 80,000 pound load, the company calculates its range at more than 1200 miles. That's equivalent to 15.4 mpg in conventional ICE-age truck terms, or put another way, from two-to-three times the fuel efficiency of the best diesels on the road. And to make sure truckers don't ran out of "gas", the company will embark in 2017 on a multi-year build out of sow 364 hydrogen filling stations across the United States. Refill time will take only 15 minutes, Milton estimates.
Its called the Nikola-One

http://evworld.com/focus.cfm?cid=346

Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 16 Feb 2017, 21:44, edited 1 time in total.

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white exec
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by white exec »

The selling price of service/replacement items can be bizarre. The technology company I worked for had a formula for pricing up these, which ran something like this:
- buying in price < £20, multiply this by 10
- b.i. price between £20 amd £100, multiply by 5
- b.i. price between £100 and £500, multiply by 4
- b.i. price between £500 and £1000, multiply by 3
- b.i. price above £1000, double it.
Some parts were £8k+ buy-in!

One of the considerations is having to maintain parts stocks for last-sale-plus-10years (some of which will never be sold), but it can lead to some crazy replacement parts costs.

Wonder how that C-Zero battery price compares to a complete PSA ICE engine replacement?
Last edited by white exec on 18 Feb 2017, 22:13, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by RichardW »

3.0 V6 HDi is a few quid short of 10 grand...

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Mandrake
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

RichardW wrote:3.0 V6 HDi is a few quid short of 10 grand...
Better hope that timing belt doesn't break then. ;)

A lot more likely than an outright failure of a battery pack.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

I like the ambition of the Nikola 1 Semi, and the demise of the Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicle in favour of the Battery Electric Vehicle is by no means over especially with respect to trucks. It will be interesting to see if Tesla decide to progress and compete in the Electric goods vehicle market....it appears so with their proposals for their own Semi, and having too much on their plate doesn't seem to bother Elon Musk. He has made several damning comments re fuel cells for cars, "so Bulls**t" being one of his less polite ones, but maybe a competitive electric semi will require fuel cell technology for a profitable proposition for the truck operators. If the presentations of the Nikola-One are to be believed for the average truck operator, leasing a Nikola-One is what may be termed a "no brainer", as it beats the best diesels by a country mile on the figures presented.

http://evobsession.com/elon-musk-fuel-cells-bullshit/

https://nikolamotor.com/

Regards Neil

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Few headlines from recent stories on Elektrek

Mercedes-Benz starts ‘small series production’ of all-electric Urban eTruck and trials with customers

Not designed to compete with the long haul ambitions of the Nikola-One or the Tesla Semi but for heavy transport within Cities. As with all haulage applications of electric vehicles, the numbers have to stack up, so that the operators of the vehicles can make a profit, and will chose the electric option on this basis. Of course Cities and Governments may well legislate diesel powered trucks out of existance.

Chevy Bolt EV drivers reporting that 300+ miles of range are achievable under perfect conditions

GM is deploying over 100 Chevy Bolt EVs through its car-sharing network in Los Angeles

Maybe you dont need an electric vehicle of your own....just join up with a car sharing scheme and use the app on your phone whenever you need one! (yes what I know about apps and car sharing schemes at the moment you could write on the back of a postage stamp!)

regards Neil

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

Here is a timely fully charged episode that mentions the Nikola one, electrification of London busses and debunks the daily mails ludicrous claim that it will take 20 new nuclear power plants to power the UK's car fleet if they were all electric! Worth a watch. :)

Last edited by Mandrake on 18 Feb 2017, 11:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Gawd almighty is that dolt paid by the word? An interesting story talked (waffled) to death. :(

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white exec
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by white exec »

All good stuff, despite the padding. EV's answer to David Bellamy!
The pace is quickening. Good news about those two London double-decker routes.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Reading Buses do have a few hybrid buses, and a gas powered one (that achieved the highest speed attained by a standard bus).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-32801974
Last edited by Hell Razor5543 on 18 Feb 2017, 20:39, edited 2 times in total.

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white exec
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by white exec »

London has been running a good few hybrid buses for some time, Volvo based I believe.
It is reported that they not only consume more diesel than their conventional diesel counterparts, but also spend considerable time off the road due to unreliability.

I understand that they were essentially electrically powered, but had a relatively small diesel engine in the rear, roaring away at peak revs to keep batteries charged and power levels up - which they didn't, thirstily and not particularly cleanly. Another Boris triumph!

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Mandrake wrote:Here is a timely fully charged episode that mentions the Nikola one, electrification of London busses and debunks the daily mails ludicrous claim that it will take 20 new nuclear power plants to power the UK's car fleet if they were all electric! Worth a watch. :)
Gibbo2286 wrote:Gawd almighty is that dolt paid by the word? An interesting story talked (waffled) to death. :(
Yes worth a watch, but definitely see Gibbo's point above, but then again I am one of the few who can tolerate Mike Brewer so it didn't bother me that much :!: :-D

Quite a show for the reveal of the Nikola-One but as you may expect comments from a number of doubters as to the chances of success of the vision particularly in the chicken and egg situation of roll out of the 300 odd hydrogen refuelling stations with their "make it on the site" solar farms/ and taking the vehicle into full production.

Costs...millions/billions and a big task to convince and gain the confidence of investors/US Government that the vision can be turned into an ultimatelly profitable reality. Same problem for Tesla but no blunting of ambition from Elon Musk et al and their "Master Plan part Deux"!

I will always come down on the side of the triers rather than the knockers and what is not to like if Nikola and Tesla pull their ambitions off.

Regards Neil