Electric cars-Conversions

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Peter.N.
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Peter.N. »

That's interesting Neil. The cost must be horrific, although probably not to someone with their sort of turnover. If they don't know what to to with the old batteries they can put me down for one. 8-)

They have battery back back up on the Orkney system but theirs were in shipping containers so not quite as big.

Peter

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Peter.N. wrote:That's interesting Neil. The cost must be horrific, although probably not to someone with their sort of turnover.
Peter
Nice bit of oppurtunism from TESLA, not without a touch of irony, in that the company awarding them the contract are Southern Californian Edison, and Tesla are selling them a DC Battery!

The world of really big business, involves lots of really big investment with no guarantee of future revenues. TESLA obviouslly aren't running a corner shop....it would have closed down by now after a few years of net losses.

Here's a nice little graph from wiki(Pheonix7777) (creative commons under this licencehttps://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.en )

Image

The source, is the wonderfully detailed United States Securities and Exchange Commission Form 10-K ie Tesla's annual report and accounts.

There really is loads of information which has to be declared by the Company particularly in relation to an assessment of risks facing the business. Is it worth a deposit in The Pickled Egg Library though?....................

....of course it is.......just the sort of limited appeal oddity you would expect the PE to cater for :-D :!:

Regards Neil

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by harryp »

Bobbins wrote - "Run away, very fast, climb over bodies if you need to" :shock:

Reminds me of a tee shirt on the back of which was written "I am a bomb disposal expert. If you see me running, try to keep up".
Covers the "very fast" in the quote :-D .
Regards

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Back to the world of DIY for a moment,

A cautionary tale of over-enthusiasm perhaps.

I dont know the outcome, but this gentleman....lets call him Tim Pootle...posted this up on the Speak-EV forum....
I am selling my converted Berlingo Electrique. Details on eBay and batteryvehiclesociety.org.uk forum

Electric Berlingo van vehicle lithium battery 300 mile range | eBay

timpootle,Mar 11, 2015
Now while Tesla and Nissan can source Lithium-ion Batteries for their vehicles at prices to enable their cars to be profitable, the average DIY'er simply can't.

Unless of course you have ambitions of a 300 mile range Berlingo which the market cannot supply you with at the moment!

Now I have to plead ignorance here never having bought anytjing off e-bay....but.....surely this gentleman's offer was never ever going to sell for the price he was looking for....

make your own mind up....
Original E-Bay Listing http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-Berl ... 675.l2557/

The bottom line-for a 1998 Berlingo Van! The lising is entitled...."“Scruffy 15 year old van with very big battery”

Costs new:
Cells £30,000
BMS £1,500
type 2 lead £70
van,motor,controller £800
IM axle £400
front battery box £70
sundries £400???
time £????

Asking for £29,000 all in, ONO
Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 30 Jan 2017, 20:53, edited 3 times in total.

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CitroJim
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by CitroJim »

Ouch! That is serious money indeed...

Peter.N.
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Peter.N. »

I can't really see him selling it at that price unless someone with plenty of money wants it for interest or to use the installation in something else.

Jim.

Did you see the picture of my old electric truck posted earlier on this thread?

Peter

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CitroJim
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by CitroJim »

Peter.N. wrote: Jim.

Did you see the picture of my old electric truck posted earlier on this thread?

Peter
Yes, I did. I meant to comment at the time as I well remember a small fleet of them running around the site where I work for many years back along...

When we were apprentices we used to love hijacking them and hiding them from their legitimate users... They didn't always appreciate it when they went out and couldn't find their truck...

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white exec
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by white exec »

I remember our local milkman in Ealing using a "pedestrian" milk truck in the '50s/early '60s. It has two rear wheels wide apart at the rear, and a pair close together at the front, plus a downward curved control and steering handle at the front, which also operated as a dead-man's handle. Had a rotary switch in the front panel for fwd/rev/off.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

NewcastleFalcon wrote: The world of really big business, involves lots of really big investment with no guarantee of future revenues. TESLA obviouslly aren't running a corner shop....it would have closed down by now after a few years of net losses.

Here's a nice little graph from wiki(Pheonix7777) (creative commons under this licencehttps://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.en )

Image

The source, is the wonderfully detailed United States Securities and Exchange Commission Form 10-K ie Tesla's annual report and accounts.
I think the main reason why net income is still negative (at least between 2014 - 2015 in the graph - I think things have improved since then) is because they are investing in building literally the biggest battery production facility in the world. When it is completed it will have more output capacity in lithium ion cells than the entire rest of the world production, which is quite staggering. :shock:

Nobody else like Panasonic (who manufactured all Tesla's cells before that) has the output capacity to ramp up to the quantity of batteries needed to meet the number of Model 3's that have been pre-ordered and get them shipped in time. If they don't build their own battery mass production facility they simply won't be able to ship the Model 3 in quantity on time, or get the car down to a mass market price level. (I'm sure the model 3 will be 6-12 months late at least but it should at least ship in volume when it does arrive with batteries available for it)

Of course the cost of building the factory is massive and is a huge short term gamble financially if it doesn't pay off. But if they get the factory up to full production and get the Model 3 out the door in numbers not too soon after promised then they will be golden and the risk will have paid off.

Of course if they have any excess production capacity it can be put into power walls and other battery contracts like Californian Edison - I can actually envisage a time in the next 10 years where Tesla makes more money from selling battery technology than actual cars - and I'm OK with that as long as they keep making great cars and pushing the boundaries there as well!

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

You may have to take my word for it....but there is plenty of interest in the seemingly dry as sticks Form 10K on Tesla.

This is part of what form 10K declares on the Gigafactory
.We are developing the Gigafactory as a facility where we work together with our suppliers to integrate battery material, cell, module and battery pack production in one location. We plan to use the battery packs manufactured at the Gigafactory for our vehicles and for our Tesla Energy applications. We broke ground on the Gigafactory in June 2014 and began assembling our Tesla Energy products in the first portion of the facility in the fourth quarter of 2015.

We currently expect to produce cells at the Gigafactory beginning in 2016 for use initially in our Tesla Energy products and later for our vehicles. The Gigafactory is currently expected to attain full production capacity in 2020, which is anticipated to be sufficient for the production of approximately 500,000 vehicles annually as well as for the production of our energy storage products. By that time, we expect battery pack production capacity to reach 50 GWh. Of this, we expect to build 35 GWh of cell production capacity at the Gigafactory and purchase 15 GWh of cells from other manufacturers.

We believe that the Gigafactory will allow us to achieve a significant reduction in the cost of our battery packs once we are in volume production with Model 3. The total capital expenditures associated with the Gigafactory through 2020 are expected to be $4 to $5 billion, of which approximately $2 billion is expected to come from Tesla. Panasonic has agreed to partner with us on the Gigafactory with investments in production equipment that it will use to manufacture and supply us with battery cells. We have a supply agreement with Panasonic that, among other things, allows us to purchase a minimum of 1.8 billion lithium-ion battery cells at preferential prices that we intend to purchase from 2014 through 2017. We have agreed to prepare and provide the land, buildings and utilities, invest in production equipment for battery module and pack production and be responsible for the overall management of the Gigafactory.
Regards Neil

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Mandrake wrote:
Of course if they have any excess production capacity it can be put into power walls and other battery contracts like Californian Edison - I can actually envisage a time in the next 10 years where Tesla makes more money from selling battery technology than actual cars - and I'm OK with that as long as they keep making great cars and pushing the boundaries there as well!
Ever wondered what the Gigafactory looks like?

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/gigafactory

Its still under construction in Nevada but its first output is indeed the "Powerwall".

This website has many articles on it and recent images released by Tesla of the site in Nevada

https://electrek.co/guides/tesla-gigafactory/

Regards Neil

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CitroJim
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by CitroJim »

Gosh! Now this does look like a properly massive factory if the wind turbines are to scale... Must be on its way to being one of the biggest buildings in the world I'd guess...

Just checked and it already has the largest 'footprint'

This Wikipedia list of biggest buildings makes interesting reading... Surprised to see the NEC so high in the list but when walking around it for the Classic Car Show I ought to have realised it's pretty massive...

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white exec
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by white exec »

IPEX (international printing exhibition) at NEC, every four years, fills the entire place. Did several one-week stints on Agfa's stand there. Exhausting!

Peter.N.
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Peter.N. »

Are they solar panels on the roof, almost enough to run the factory I would think.

Peter

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

Their goal is to have the entire roof covered in solar panels by the time it is fully constructed, yes, and I believe that it does work out to be sufficient to run the whole operation. :)

It's not for no reason that they chose somewhere like the Nevada desert...