Electric vehicles-Conversions

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bobins
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by bobins »

In reference to a few previous postings about utilizing the rail network a bit better.........
I make no apologies for this being so far off topic that it's best viewed on another computer down at the bottom of the garden, but in an effort to educate in a way that a few of the regulars on here might find mildly interesting :-D ....... the Swedes came up with a novel use for their rail network. They figured that post World War 3 it might be a little difficult distributing energy around the country, so they devised a system where they could use the power transmitted on the overhead power lines on the rail network and convert it back down to 'domestic' supply for distribution in an area where it's needed. The 'converters' were on rolling stock and normally stored discreetly in out of the way places - short spur tunnels in the middle of nowhere etc. Somewhere I should have some photos of one of the tunnels - but it's not that interesting really :lol:

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

bobins wrote: The 'converters' were on rolling stock and normally stored discreetly in out of the way places - short spur tunnels in the middle of nowhere etc. Somewhere I should have some photos of one of the tunnels - but it's not that interesting really :lol:
Thats just the sort of thing "Picture(s) of the Day" thrives on :-D

All this talk of flywheels etc etc had me wondering what would come up with a random query into google something like.."Clockwork Cars-latest developments"

Regards Neil

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Couple of interesting results....Leonardo Da Vinci designed one

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/ ... italy.arts

And according to this article of 1st April 2016..a clockwork motor has been incorporated into the Vauxhall Adam C.

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/vauxh ... 06111.html

Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 26 Jan 2017, 23:11, edited 2 times in total.

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bobins
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by bobins »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
And according to this article of 1st April 2016..a clockwork motor has been incorporated into the Vauxhall Adam C.

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/vauxh ... 06111.html

Regards Neil
A clockwork motor on the Adam C - that'll be quite a wind-up then :-D

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

This link here goes to an article from the year 2000, about a chap called Jack Bitterly, and his passion for flywheels! Yes quite heavy going and very "American" in presentation but interesting snippets non the less
from
https://www.wired.com/2000/05/flywheel/

...The underlying concept is simple, though the finished flywheel assemblies become increasingly complex. First you feed electricity to a motor, which accelerates the wheel to cruising speed. Riding on magnetic bearings inside a vacuum container that eliminates air resistance, the wheel can spin almost indefinitely after you cut the power. When you want to tap its energy, you draw electricity back out of the motor, which now functions as a generator. This imposes a load on the wheel, gradually slowing it as mechanical energy is converted back to electricity.

In this way, the flywheel can substitute for a battery, while offering features that no battery can match. Even the most exotic battery can be damaged if you charge or discharge it too quickly. A flywheel isn't affected by this treatment, and can operate at extreme temperatures, can contain 10 times a battery's power density, and – according to its advocates – should last for decades.
Regards Neil

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Peter.N. »

Like super capacitors - but they are expensive.

Peter

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by CitroJim »

This thread just gets better and better :D Keep it coming please!

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by bobins »

They use a couple of flywheels at the Culham fusion research project:

Quote: "Large amounts of electrical power are required at Culham to generate the necessary confinement magnetic fields, and heat the fusion plasma to the huge temperatures required to research the conditions required for fusion to take place. JET's main power source, the 400kV super-grid, is able to supply up to 550MW but this is not enough for all the loads required during an experiment. In addition two large flywheel generators, each with rotors weighing in at 775 tonnes and measuring nine meters in diameter, are used generate up to 400MW each and supplements the power drawn from the grid."

http://www.ccfe.ac.uk/power_academy_roles.aspx

If you can get on a tour to that place, it's definitely worth it :) Oh yes !!

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CitroJim
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by CitroJim »

Now that's some serious power and some seriously large flywheels! Imagine if one of those broke free...

Flywheels are used in some datacentre UPS systems nowadays to save the need of large banks of batteries. The flywheel will maintain the supply for as long as it takes for the diesel standby generators to fire up and take the load...

I know of one that works perfectly until it's actually needed in anger! It's tries to be too clever by half...

I'm old-school with big UPS systems. A bank of batteries on float driving a DC motor-alternator set still takes some beating in terms of outright reliability... It's quite basic and not clever... The downside perhaps these days is those batteries need a lot of accommodation and maintenance...

bobins wrote: If you can get on a tour to that place, it's definitely worth it :) Oh yes !!
Oh yes definitely!

Love to have a tour of that installation!

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

CitroJim wrote:Now that's some serious power and some seriously large flywheels! Imagine if one of those broke free...
In fact I remember reading an article a few years ago saying that safety concerns were the primary reason why flywheels as a temporary storage device are not widely used in electric vehicles such as busses - because in the event of an accident if the flywheel was to break off its supports it would have so much rotational inertia and mass that it would rip through the side of the vehicle and flatten any other vehicles or people that happened to be in its path of destruction once it got free! Imagine seeing a 5 ton flywheel rolling down the motorway out of control... :shock:

In that regard I think properly designed and compartmentalised battery packs are far safer.... :)

Also lets not forget the difficulty of taking corners in a vehicle containing a spinning flywheel. Doesn't seem very optimal on the handling front. :-D

Again, low, centrally mounted batteries help keep the moment of inertia very low in a battery powered car to improve cornering - lower in fact than an ICE car where the weight is distributed more towards the ends.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by CitroJim »

You're right about flywheels in cars not being a good idea on the safety front Simon... To gain an idea of the potential risks, there's been some reports of the carnage caused by the engine flywheel breaking up and letting loose with very bad consequences.. This is normally a result of ill-educated attempts to lighten them...

To give a car flywheel sufficient accident protection would likely involve so much added weight and loss of space that it would work out completely unrealistic.
Mandrake wrote: Also lets not forget the difficulty of taking corners in a vehicle containing a spinning flywheel. Doesn't seem very optimal on the handling front. :-D
Indeed, you only need to hold a spinning gyroscope in your hand to appreciate how it would make handing very 'interesting'... If you have no gyroscope available the same effect can be observed by handling a still-spinning computer hard disk!

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by bobins »

CitroJim wrote:
Flywheels are used in some datacentre UPS systems nowadays to save the need of large banks of batteries. The flywheel will maintain the supply for as long as it takes for the diesel standby generators to fire up and take the load...

I know of one that works perfectly until it's actually needed in anger! It's tries to be too clever by half...

I visited a site under Germany some years ago that had similar kit and similar problems. In this case there were rows of gennies with holes in the sides of them !! They replaced them with a few new gensets of <ahem> 'several' MW capacity :-D

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I had a few rides on this, maybe ten years ago on my first visit to Santa Barbara.

http://www.santabarbaracarfree.org/how- ... us-around/

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by CitroJim »

Gibbo2286 wrote:I had a few rides on this, maybe ten years ago on my first visit to Santa Barbara.

http://www.santabarbaracarfree.org/how- ... us-around/
That's a neat little vehicle :D Can it be driven from either end?

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by harryp »

Do I presume that large battery banks are "wet" alkaline?. The term "large" would then be very relevant :rofl2: .