Electric cars-Conversions

This is the place for posts that don't fit into any other category.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 6435
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
x 1092

Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by white exec »

Something drastic needs to happen now. Tinkering with diesel further is not going to produce results (or it would have been done) and the car industry knows it. A reversion to petrol is not the answer either, and would leave an increased CO2 problem.

Everyone's on notice now of having to end internal combustion, at least in cities. Just a question of managing it, and public reaction - so that will be the most difficult bit, because the present UK government is generally incapable of and averse to managing anything. It will have to be driven at a local level, so expect fireworks in London.

As the article says, we legislated away coal (along with asbestos, mercury, lead . . .) with the respective industries moaning like stink. We can and will do it again with petrol and diesel. What better way to invest in infrastructure, jobs and manufacturing opportunities, with a private-public "partnership" (I use the word loosely, of course) - should go down a treat with a certain crowd in SW1.

I'm sure that classic/collectable car afficionados will be looked after. A long history of this. Trouble is, some of what we regard as classic/collectable is all a bit recent . . . :roll:

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 43135
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 1503

Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by CitroJim »

white exec wrote:Something drastic needs to happen now. Tinkering with diesel further is not going to produce results (or it would have been done) and the car industry knows it. A reversion to petrol is not the answer either, and would leave an increased CO2 problem.
Absolutely right Chris and a ban (with notice) would help immensely to kick-start the final bit of development needed to completely obsolete the IC engine as we know it and replace it with a viable alternative...

Bring it on I say...

elma
Posts: 3745
Joined: 13 May 2007, 02:17
x 213

Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by elma »

If things are going that way there would be a massive market for electric conversions.

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 13983
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 1379

Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

It would be nice if the UK decided that it was going to take a lead on this, but the domino effect of some of the biggest cities taking action is likely to spread to others in any case. Conversion is quite an investment, unlikely to be less than £6,000 DIY with motors/battery packs/controllers etc when the second hand market can supply you with a ready made one off the shelf for similar money.

Have you ever asked google the question...

Why are rechargeable batteries not infinitely rechargeable?

A breakthrough in this element of battery development, would do a great deal to take away the spectre of the cost of replacement of "battery packs" as EV's age.

Well thankfully the scientists are working on this on our behalf.

Little bit here if you are interested

http://gizmodo.com/scientists-solved-th ... 1583247838

Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 12 Jan 2017, 00:00, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 6435
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
x 1092

Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by white exec »

That's really interesting, Neil, and, as you say, this could change the prospects and take-up of electric vehicles significantly.

I think I read recently that Tesla are now guaranteeing batteries for 10 years, but this may only be a type of extended warranty. If anyone would know about battery developments, they would, I guess. Good, in'it?

Hopefully, though, batteries won't be jumped on as the latest cash-cow for the automotive industry, keen to put vehicles out there at little profit, but more than happy to milk owners over ensuing years for parts, so-called consumables and service. History doesn't look good in this respect.

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 13983
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 1379

Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

As we have been hearing this week the rise of Personal Contract Purchase for new vehicles is likely to become ever increasingly the norm. The tie-in with mandatory full service history, milage limits, and damage/fair wear and tear judgements are all likely to sustain the "main dealer" harvest of revenues over the period of the contract.

Soon all cars will be £x deposit, and £y/month for effectively a rental contract, and car ownership will be a thing of the past.

Regards Neil

User avatar
bobins
Donor 2020
Posts: 3819
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
x 1131

Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by bobins »

NewcastleFalcon wrote: The tie-in with mandatory full service history, mileage limits, and damage/fair wear and tear judgements are all likely to sustain the "main dealer" harvest of revenues over the period of the contract.

Regards Neil
Yep, and it also gives the dealers / manufacturers more control over resale value so they could push the (relatively) cheap second hand car prices higher. :(

Gibbo2286
Donor 2020
Posts: 4865
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
x 908

Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I'm afraid that the answer to your "Something drastic needs to be done." will be to take the plebs out of their cars altogether and return to the situation where people are tied to their locality for work at whatever is available and only use state owned public transport to get there.

The motor car has done more to give the ordinary man freedom than any politician or political system.

As I've said before if you need to deal with pollution you need to gather up the polluted air in the worst affected areas and clean it, I'm sure that's an easier task than trying to clean up every automobile in the country/world.

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 43135
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 1503

Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by CitroJim »

Gibbo2286 wrote: The motor car has done more to give the ordinary man freedom than any politician or political system.
And much deep misery too if the regular traffic reports on Radio 2 are anything to go by :)

I find going anywhere bar the od trip to work or the shops deeply miserable...

I've never been happier since reducing my dependence on the car to practically nil...

Maybe the plebs you speak of can fine their freedom using self-powered or public transport...

Gibbo2286
Donor 2020
Posts: 4865
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
x 908

Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I had a trip yesterday to the hospital, my appointment was for 10.15 I looked at the possibility of using public transport, the only option would have meant a bus ride, a train ride, and another bus ride at the other end and of course the opposite for the return journey, I would need to start at 7.30 and would still be 25 minutes late for my appointment, return would have me home at around 3.30 pm.

I went in the car, left home at 9.10, at the hospital at 10.00 and back home before mid-day.

There is the problem also that the NHS keeps moving services further away, twenty years ago I could have had yesterday's job done at the local cottage hospital two miles down the road, now it entails a 60 + miles round trip.

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 43135
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 1503

Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by CitroJim »

I appreciate the issues of using public transport Gibbo and I've faced the same frustrations in Milton Keynes...

Any serious drive to reduce private car usage must include massive improvements to public transport and the localisation of essential services... The policy of centralising everything a few large centres is just not sustainable..

Nor is the method of solving the public transport shortfalls in Milton Keynes a good one. There the place is flooded with a whole hoard of very badly driven taxi cabs. That's no solution at all...

The resolution is going to take a lot of joined-up thinking right across the board.

It can be done, it just needs will and direction.

User avatar
Zelandeth
Donor 2016
Posts: 3746
Joined: 17 Nov 2014, 00:36
x 377

Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Zelandeth »

Public transport in MK is never likely to be decent again for the forseeable future sadly. Having a good background knowledge of the ins and outs of how a public transport network works (spent nearly eight years working in the field), to be honest I'm surprised it's as comprehensive as it is.

Given the extraordinarily low population density in MK it's nigh on impossible to run a decent bus network here profitably, and they knew that from the start. The intention had always been for the Local Authority to have control of the network and for the vast bulk of the routes to be subsidised to at least some degree. Hence the fact that when I first started coming to MK the network was still usable, even if there were a few holes. Since then the Council has pulled the plug on (at least the bulk of - I haven't researched the detail!) the funding, and I believe that at least the majority of the existing routes are now operated commercially...albeit with significantly lower service levels than back in the MK Metro days.

Interestingly, there is legislation in Scotland (buried deep within the Transport (Scotland) Act 2001) which gives the Local Authority powers to take back a significant degree of control of bus services in its area if they can demonstrate that the market is failing to provide for the needs of the travelling public. If that legislation were invoked, it would result in a situation where the Local Authority had the ability to set service levels, fares and routes and where operators would have to then bid to operate the routes - similar to the franchise arrangements in place in London.

As far as I'm aware nobody has ever actually used these powers - not least because of the absolutely mind boggling amount of work that it would require the Local Authority in question to do, the money that they would then probably have to cough up to operate the services, and the fact that it would most likely require someone to prove in some form of legal forum that the market had in fact failed...

It's a good couple of years since I was last involved in that sort of thing and I can't remember exactly what the wording was, but I remember it causing a couple of bus operators to go somewhat pale in the face when it was quoted to them by a senior council official a few years back following a particularly large fares hike...Until they came to the same conclusion as I did above, in that while it makes for a good bit of sabre rattling, it's actually almost completely impossible to implement in the real world.

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 43135
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 1503

Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by CitroJim »

Zel, that's really interesting indeed and something of an eye-opener. Thanks ever so for posting that...

I can see now how a place like Milton Keynes is very hard to cover effectively and efficiently.

Gibbo2286
Donor 2020
Posts: 4865
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
x 908

Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Wasn't the great bulk of UK bus services started by a Scottish family business Zel (Stagecoach maybe)?

User avatar
Zelandeth
Donor 2016
Posts: 3746
Joined: 17 Nov 2014, 00:36
x 377

Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Zelandeth »

Afraid the history of it isn't something I actually have a great understanding of...I really should go back sometime and research some of it! I was more at the sharp end of things on a day-to-day basis. My position was with the Local Authority, and saw me as effectively the middle-man between the transport operators themselves and the general public.

...My phone number was also displayed on every bus stop in the City...so you can imagine how interesting my life got if ever it snowed.