Thought experiment - using an HDi engine in another vehicle

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
Stickyfinger
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 10411
Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 21:05
Location: Somset my lovleee
My Cars: Xantia V6 ACTIVA 3ltr 24v Manual p1
Xm 2.1TD Ph2 Exclusive
AX, little Daffodil
SAXO White Mk1. Sally
x 1280
Contact:

Re: Thought experiment - using an HDi engine in another vehicle

Post by Stickyfinger »

FIAT vans ?
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
BenC5HDi
Not Mike
Posts: 588
Joined: 30 Nov 2015, 20:21
Location: Around Berkshire
My Cars: '07 Peugeot 207 1.4 "Sport" (Ha!)
'04 Berlingo Multispace 2.0 HDi with a 123BHP remap
x 45

Re: Thought experiment - using an HDi engine in another vehicle

Post by BenC5HDi »

They're FWD..

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
User avatar
Paul-R
Donor 2023
Posts: 6916
Joined: 07 May 2009, 16:24
Location: Wirral, NW England; Vaucluse 84, France
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2015 1.6 Blue HDi 120 Peugeot 308 Active SW
2013 2.0 HDi 163 C5 Exclusive Tourer
2003 2.0 HDi 110 C5 Exclusive Estate (Gone)
2001 2.0 HDi 90 Xsara Estate (Gone)
x 1369

Re: Thought experiment - using an HDi engine in another vehicle

Post by Paul-R »

Thanks for the contributions folks. Even dead-end suggestions are useful.
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson​
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Re: Thought experiment - using an HDi engine in another vehicle

Post by Peter.N. »

Good thought but that was a different engine, a very heavy cast iron one, first used in the Peugeot 404, I had one. It was an Indenor XD88, started life at about 2.0.l then enlarged to 2.3 for the Sierra then 2.5 for the Granada, although I think the early Granada's were only 2.1.

Making up propshafts is not to difficult, a jubilee clip carefully fitted to get a square cut and then a length of angle iron in the vice and clamp the ends in it to keep it square while you weld it. Done quite a few and they all worked.

Peter
User avatar
Paul-R
Donor 2023
Posts: 6916
Joined: 07 May 2009, 16:24
Location: Wirral, NW England; Vaucluse 84, France
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2015 1.6 Blue HDi 120 Peugeot 308 Active SW
2013 2.0 HDi 163 C5 Exclusive Tourer
2003 2.0 HDi 110 C5 Exclusive Estate (Gone)
2001 2.0 HDi 90 Xsara Estate (Gone)
x 1369

Re: Thought experiment - using an HDi engine in another vehicle

Post by Paul-R »

Peter.N. wrote:Making up propshafts is not to difficult...
Indeed. In my rallying days I had a Bedford CF van with a 2.3 VX engine in it (when I took it for an MOT the mechanic took it out for a brake test and when he brought it back he said it went like a bunch of f**ks) and I fitted the overdrive gearbox as well.

That type of Laycock overdrive (the J type) had a sliding spline connection to propshaft and after a very short while the torque had split the casing. I had it rebuilt but with a flange drive - better because it had two bearings to support the output. And then I had to make the propshaft up to suit. It's a long time ago now but I did it and ran it for several years.

I also made the propshaft up for the Chevette mentioned earlier. This was rather more mix and match than cut and shut. I used the back of a two piece propshaft off, I think, the Guillietta with a propshaft off an MGB for the front. All that was needed was a spacer between the axle and propshaft and it all went together like Lego.

Did I mention that I put a Mk1 Ford Cortina axle on the rear of the Chevette? And Mk1 Ford Capri 3l front discs and callipers so I could use Ford centre wheels?
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson​
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Re: Thought experiment - using an HDi engine in another vehicle

Post by Peter.N. »

Sounds as though you have been down the same road as me - only for a different purpose. I used to buy scrap Bedford vans with the Perkins 4/108 diesel for diesel conversions as they would mate to the Vauxhall overdrive box.

I used gearboxes from the VX490 or Cresta/Velox but the gear ratios were to close for the diesel engine, 1st gear was to high, so I fitted the gears from the Bedford box and disabled the overdrive inhibitor switch except in reverse and I used a relay from the reversing light feed for that, so I now had a nice set of ratios to keep the revs and noise down on the motorway.

I must have done 10 or more altogether, the smallest and one of the easiest was into an HB Viva and the biggest and most difficult Granada estate but the engine wasn't man enough so I fitted a York diesel from a Transit.

I came across a Vauxhall gear lever knob overdrive switch in the garage a little while back, a reminder of those fun times when I used to spend half my life at the breakers yard.

Peter
User avatar
Xantianut
Posts: 836
Joined: 07 Aug 2012, 19:50
Location: Wolverhampton
My Cars: 2002 C5 2.0 HDi 110 SX

RIP:
1993 Xantia 1.8i LX
1989 BX16TRS
1986 BX14E x 2
x 103
Contact:

Re: Thought experiment - using an HDi engine in another vehicle

Post by Xantianut »

Ay up!

I wasn't thinking in terms of the old iron lumps.

The 1.6 HDi is also used in some Ford applications. It used to be that any Ford gearbox would fit any Ford bell housing so would say a Focus 1.6 TDCI bellhousing fit the Sierra gearbox and the engine?

The prop shaft is actually dead easy, there are several companies doing kits to fit the Ford box to an MGB giving a better box than the original plus overdrive,
C5 HDi 110 SX (Fifi 7 or Otterchops)

RIP
Citroen Xantia 1.8i LX (Fifi 6)
BX16TRS (x2) (Fifi 4 and 5)
BX19DTR (Fifi 2)
BX14E (x2) (Fifi 1 and 3)
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: Thought experiment - using an HDi engine in another vehicle

Post by citroenxm »

The simpleist engine to put in another car is the ORIGINAL 8v hdi 2.0 engine, which was unique to PSA ONLY and was not used in Ford at all..

Id imagine the HDi 2.0 would weigh the same as a BR OHV engine... The 8v HDi is quite easy to fix theres little to go wrong.. Injectors... which would cause a miss fire, and turbos are WAY stronger and longer lasting then newer units. If a turbo doesnt work its useually an electro valve issue...

However, you can elminiate the electro valve issue, I did a head swap on a 54 plate Xsara Picasso 2.0 8v HDi, and the turbo unit was one with an internal wastegate pressure sensor... and no electrovalve controller... I thought that was quite an interresting setup.

Send the ECU away to have the immobilizer removed from it and there will bo no need for the Transponder chip pickup or a Body Computer as used in Xantias. Bear in mind also Xantias did NOT have a BSi and were not multiplexed. These cars, along with peugeot 406 / 306 sisters best donars.

Some more thought there anyway.
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
User avatar
spider
Posts: 3949
Joined: 05 Jan 2010, 14:28
Location: Derby.
My Cars: Soon, I hope...
x 77
Contact:

Re: Thought experiment - using an HDi engine in another vehicle

Post by spider »

You may want to review my 'PSA engines in unusual places' topic although that mainly concerns the XUD and (in one case) the TUD
Having said that the smaller 1.4 / 1.6 HDi units is also used by Ford (called the TDCI I think) in their Fester.

There are at least a couple of 205 HDi's (yes really) floating about too although they are not in the UK at least as far as I'm aware...

EDIT... I'd agree a non plexed one would be a bit easier.

Regarding fitment in other cars, apart from physically fitting it, beware the transmission ratio (or diff rate at least on RWD based vehicles) may not be ideal for a diesel engine. Expect great acceleration but a screaming engine at about 70mph or so. By screaming I mean near redline.
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Re: Thought experiment - using an HDi engine in another vehicle

Post by Peter.N. »

What you need is an overdrive :wink:

Peter
User avatar
spider
Posts: 3949
Joined: 05 Jan 2010, 14:28
Location: Derby.
My Cars: Soon, I hope...
x 77
Contact:

Re: Thought experiment - using an HDi engine in another vehicle

Post by spider »

Peter.N. wrote:What you need is an overdrive :wink:

Peter
Having tried one once in a Trumpet Dolomite I can't say as it did not appear to work ( ! ) :)
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
User avatar
Paul-R
Donor 2023
Posts: 6916
Joined: 07 May 2009, 16:24
Location: Wirral, NW England; Vaucluse 84, France
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2015 1.6 Blue HDi 120 Peugeot 308 Active SW
2013 2.0 HDi 163 C5 Exclusive Tourer
2003 2.0 HDi 110 C5 Exclusive Estate (Gone)
2001 2.0 HDi 90 Xsara Estate (Gone)
x 1369

Re: Thought experiment - using an HDi engine in another vehicle

Post by Paul-R »

The MGB gearbox has one. I'm also thinking of changing the rear axle ratio to cope with the lower revs but this is not a trivial operation. At one time I also considered using the ratios from a Sherpa van as these were wider spaced but have no access to this gearset any more.

Whilst I accept that non-multiplexed engines are the best way to go I am where I am - i.e. with a 2001 partly multiplexed Xsara. It's interesting information for others though.
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson​
User avatar
spider
Posts: 3949
Joined: 05 Jan 2010, 14:28
Location: Derby.
My Cars: Soon, I hope...
x 77
Contact:

Re: Thought experiment - using an HDi engine in another vehicle

Post by spider »

Well I guess you could cheat a little bit as the 'engine' is the same and use the 'engine bay' loom from a non-plexed car but you're then relying on something you've not seen working to work when its been transplanted...

Regarding rear axle's, I'm assuming you were planning on opening the diff itself and changing the internals ?

Would it be possible (easier?) instead to simply use the diff from something more suitable ratio-wise, even if you have to assemble suitable halfshafts ? I'm thinking inner = diff donor , outer = real car. This may or may not be practical I know. Just seems a bit easier than trying to obtain a ring/pinion ( ? ) set. I'm not really up on this too well.
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
User avatar
spider
Posts: 3949
Joined: 05 Jan 2010, 14:28
Location: Derby.
My Cars: Soon, I hope...
x 77
Contact:

Re: Thought experiment - using an HDi engine in another vehicle

Post by spider »

Having said the above, a few Moggy Minors have had diesel transplants including the XUD. It may be worth researching how they did this (I'd suspect just a higher ratio diff and praying the transmission did not bend under the extra torque?) though. Although not what you intended seeing how this was done in other vehicles may in itself reveal interesting clues / hints that may assist you... :)
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Re: Thought experiment - using an HDi engine in another vehicle

Post by Peter.N. »

I would like to see one of those. Very easy to change the diff on and a number of different ratios - if there are still any about.

Peter
Post Reply