A very bad Birthday indeed.

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Re: A very bad Birthday indeed.

Post by daviemck2006 »

I tried this with my first one. From when it went on to the last bar flashing it got 15.5 miles then the flashing got about twice as fast, it did another 15 miles and that was it. I used to get 55 to 60 mpg out of the last one on a 48 mile commute on quiet roads, an all time best of 71mpg driving myself to the height of boredom tailgating an artic for 4 hours going to my sister's, then tailgating another artic fer 4 hours coming home again. I get 46 to 50 mpg from this one on the pizza run which is with heavy right foot and mostly town giving.
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Re: A very bad Birthday indeed.

Post by BenC5HDi »

I think the fuel is pretty much irrelevant. It's psychological.. of course you're going to drive more economically if you've just spent £6 more on a tank to see if it gives better economy..

I get a real - world result by filling it up with poncy fuel then letting herself drive it until it's empty, but don't tell her I've put different fuel in.
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Re: A very bad Birthday indeed.

Post by CitroJim »

I'm going to have to be very careful next time I fill up, it's been weeks and weeks since I have...
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Re: A very bad Birthday indeed.

Post by Paul-R »

BenC5HDi wrote:I think the fuel is pretty much irrelevant.
Well, not quite.

The amount of energy available in diesel fuel is denoted by the cetane value which is not usually quoted. I think that most (all?) fuels on sale in the UK are of similar cetane value but what the manufacturers of the premium fuels tend to sell their wares on is not an increase in cetane but the additives they put in to clean the system out. They may have a higher cetane value but who would know?

If a diesel engine is fed with a lower than normal cetane fuel then it will get economy per gallon and, I think, will tend to smoke a lot. The thing is, it will actually run but with lower power output unlike a petrol engine fed with lower octane fuel than designed which will pink unless the timing is retarded, This is based on old IDI engine information and may not be entirely applicable to modern high pressure DI engines. Also, extreme computer control of engine parameters (both diesel and petrol) can mask/control a lot of the negative effects.
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Re: A very bad Birthday indeed.

Post by CitroJim »

I've always understood the Cetane value to be a measure of ignition delay DERV, i.e the time between injection into combustion chamber and actual ignition of the fuel... It is not directly an indicator of performance as the Wikipeda article states, a high Cetane value giving a lower ignition delay may improve fuel combustion efficiency a little bit and make the engine run a bit more smoothly and quietly with a potential concomitant improvement in economy...

Cenane number or CN is an inverse function of a fuel's ignition delay, and the time period between the start of injection and the first identifiable pressure increase during combustion of the fuel. In a particular diesel engine, higher cetane fuels will have shorter ignition delay periods than lower Cetane fuels. Cetane numbers are only used for the relatively light distillate diesel oils. For heavy (residual) fuel oil two other scales are used CCAI and CII.

In short, the higher the Cetane number the more easily the fuel will combust in a compression setting (such as a diesel engine). The characteristic diesel "knock" occurs when fuel that has been injected into the cylinder ignites after a delay causing a late shock wave. Minimizing this delay results in less unburned fuel in the cylinder and less intense knock. Therefore higher-cetane fuel usually causes an engine to run more smoothly and quietly. This does not necessarily translate into greater efficiency, although it may in certain engines.
So, don't believe all the hype and spin the advertising puts out about these fuels!
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Re: A very bad Birthday indeed.

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I tend to use Gulf fuel - regular Diesel for the most part, then about every third fill, I use their Super Diesel, which I understand contains other additives to clean the fuel system and has other benefits. - So I guess you have to way up the extra 5p per litre additional cost (I was told by the owner that as the super diesel has additional cleaning additives, you shouldn't need to use separate diesel fuel cleaner) - I'm no expert, but Gulf list these as:

Gulf Dieselect
The Year Round Solution In addition to its superior cold weather characteristics, Dieselect contains these other carefully formulated ingredients, each with important year round benefits.
  • Cetane Improvers
  • Can add anywhere from 3 to 6 points to your cetane number producing a fuel that burns quickly and completely
  • Provide faster starting at lower temperatures
  • Reduce engine knock, noise, misfiring and case shock load, pressure and engine stress
  • Dispersant and Detergent Additives
  • Contribute to cleaner, smoother running engines; reduces exhaust emissions
  • Keep fuel injectors clean to maintain uniform spray patterns for maximum combustion efficiency
  • Dramatically modify and allow fuel flow
  • Lubricity Additives
  • Protect fuel pumps and injectors from premature wear and scuffing
  • Contribute to full burn so power isn't lost
  • Oxidative Stability
  • Prevents deposits, sludge and filter plugging
  • Maintains fuel stability with added protection against oxidation
  • Water Tolerance
  • Prevents the formulation of emulsion to keep fuel flowing freely through lines; allows drainage of water from fuel storage tanks
  • Permits some moisture to be absorbed and burned with fuel
  • Reduces shutdowns caused by ice blockage
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Re: A very bad Birthday indeed.

Post by Paul-R »

Hmm, some of those things are changed to suit the season on ordinary fuels anyway. Some of the others I would imagine are in all diesel fuels all the year round.
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

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Re: A very bad Birthday indeed.

Post by CitroJim »

Indeed, Cetane goes up in Winter diesel to assist with starting as ignition delay is also related to temperature amongst other things... It's a lot longer with very cold fuel..

Winter diesel also contains additives to keep it liquid down to much lower temperatures than summer diesel.

Lubricity is always added nowadays as low sulphur diesel has very little natural lubricity, sulphur being a good lubricant - as gearbox oil will testify by the pong... In the early days of low sulphur diesel when the lubricity wasn't quite right, a lot of pumps gave trouble...
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Re: A very bad Birthday indeed.

Post by Zelandeth »

I do have to admit to being a bit of a Shell V-Power advocate.

Saab runs very noticeably smoother on it, though note this is a car with a fully mechanical injection system, so modern cars with closed loop control may vary. Skoda also behaves nicely on it wheras it pinks a lot under heavy loads even with octane boosters on standard unleaded (yes, the timing is set right). As for their diesel, I'm sold. I always stick a dash (250ml ish) of two stroke oil into the tank but on Shell's fancy diesel the Xantia runs noticeably smoother and the torque spike we all know and love the XUD for when the turbo wakes up is far more obvious. We've done a blind test here with my other half doing the fill up, and over five tanks I correctly identified whether it was standard or V-Power every time.

Never touch Tesco fuels these days...had far too many odd fuel system faults immediately following supermarket fill ups.

We had massive problems at work a couple of years back with the minibuses getting misfuelled. Turned out the local kids were swapping the pump handles around so the diesel labelled pump was unleaded etc. Cost us a fortune...pumping out a car tank is bad enough, commercial tanks are a lot bigger!
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Re: A very bad Birthday indeed.

Post by Paul-R »

Zelandeth wrote:Never touch Tesco fuels these days...had far too many odd fuel system faults immediately following supermarket fill ups.
Others might accuse me of being insensitive but I have used supermarket fuel almost exclusively for the last twenty years and have never had a problem that could point to the supermarket fuel. Frankly, I just look for the cheapest every time so I might occasionally buy branded fuel if it's the right price.
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

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Re: A very bad Birthday indeed.

Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

I also heard that shell v-power was only necessary as a cleaner for your engine at every fifth tankful
of regular fuel. In an xud engine it is perfectly safe to add 5% petrol to the tank full to raise the cetane Number.
but a smidge of two stroke oil has often been recommended since the removal of sulphur in fuels some years ago.
roughly half a cup full to a tank full.
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Re: A very bad Birthday indeed.

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I also use Tesco diesel, pretty well exclusively, the only time I've used anything else is when I've been low on fuel and needed the nearest filling station.
What set me on this road was a visit to Diglis Lock fuel storage depot where I watched BP, ESSO, Shell, Butlers and a variety of supermarket tankers all loading with fuel from the same outlet.
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Re: A very bad Birthday indeed.

Post by daviemck2006 »

I don't really care what fuel I use. Here I have the choice og Gleaner (Shell) or Esso both from small indys, who price match each other usually about 6 to 10p dearer than supermarket or Aberdeen or Elgin. The 107 usually gets the Gleaner, just because I pass it on the way to work. When in Aberdeen or Elgin I always fill up usually supermarket. Shaun ran it for 30k almost exclusively on Morrisons as he passed one on the way to work. It's never objected to anything that's been put in, and never had anything other than standard unleaded.
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Re: A very bad Birthday indeed.

Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

My 2cv hates V-power it misfires and gets very hot on it.
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Re: A very bad Birthday indeed.

Post by Stickyfinger »

falling-out-with-my-car wrote:My 2cv hates V-power it misfires and gets very hot on it.
Best run those on Liquefied Natural Baguettes
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