C5 x7 handbrake mot fail

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jgra1
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Re: C5 x7 handbrake mot fail

Post by jgra1 »

thanks Gibbo!

just looked..

don't even list anything for my car :O , may look again in a bit or call them tomorrow

I think what I am doing is changing anything to do with the rear brakes, in the hope I wont need to buy the handbrake unit.. ignorance...
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Re: C5 x7 handbrake mot fail

Post by jgra1 »

a slight update..
AA were called on Friday afternoon and I met the chap.. a nice helpful guy who really wanted me to get home under my own steam.
We set about removing the binding caliper and cross checked my work.. all fine there... re-assembled and sure enough , no problems with the brake binding - until handbrake has applied - then binding again! so.. after three more goes and winding in, caliper on, a bleed etc we left the caliper in the unbound state, and I made sure I didn't actuate the handbrake again until 12 miles home.. when I did it bound a bit

so.. the mot test caused a fail in the near side caliper.. the handbrake was pulling on and not fully releasing (within the caliper - not the cable)
the other caliper I suspect isn't putting the brake on enough hence the original fail.

therefore I conclude that both calipers are nacked from a handbrake point of view, and the cheapest new calipers seem to be Mr Auto at around £120 - £130 each.. as long as old calipers are surrendered ..

I am thinking about options.... :)

I note that Paul, (Citroen XM) has gone through some of this with an X7 but not sure the outcome
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Re: C5 x7 handbrake mot fail

Post by daviemck2006 »

If you but from Mr Auto make sure you get the correct item. I'm still waiting 6 weeks later for my refund caused by their mix up listing my car as a 16v rather than a turbo, when they had my registration to check.

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Re: C5 x7 handbrake mot fail

Post by jgra1 »

thanks Davie.. its odd that all sites that have my Reg offer handbrake calipers first and not EPB ones ! surely an exc with hydraulics is EPB only !
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Re: C5 x7 handbrake mot fail

Post by lexi »

There are 2 cheap places on ebay for calipers. I got Vel Satis ones for rear at £90 a rear set. They were the full leccy parking brake jobs.
The rears for C5 were about the same price for basic MK1. The caveat with new rear calipers is not to move the lever to the cable when installing. Always cable to lever, as the calipers are set at factory. Will look a link up John but you may have tried supplier already.
You should be ok, as you haven't turned ign on with circuit open or owt serious like that.
It may be worth checking the rubber mountings of EPB. On a Vel they can break and the unit gets misaligned, causing problems.

This was one of the companies http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PAIR-OF-REAR- ... SwG-1WxOza
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Re: C5 x7 handbrake mot fail

Post by RichardW »

It's possible that the calipers are not different between manual and electronic versions as they are just pulled on by cable effectively - I'll check later. The insides are not complicated as far as I know; it might be worth taking them off and stripping them down to see if there is obvious damage / corrosion. Big red might be able to supply seals etc if required to re-build them.
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Re: C5 x7 handbrake mot fail

Post by jgra1 »

Thanks both.. yes different caliper Richard.the handbrake return spring style and location is the give away..
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Re: C5 x7 handbrake mot fail

Post by qprdude »

By manual mode, do you mean putting your foot on the brake pedal and lifting or pushing down the brake "button" engage or disengage the parking brake? How does manual mode work, other than that.
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Re: C5 x7 handbrake mot fail

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I've done some digging and you can clearly see these are different types of callipers for the Manual / Electronic Parking Brake systems / Hydraulic / Non-Hydraulic Suspension setups.

Here are both types - (Teves / TRW), pictures of both and the part Nos. :wink:

Calliper Types
Image

Electronic Handbrake Calliper (EHB)
Image

Manual Handbrake Calliper (MHB)
Image

EHB Part Nos.
Image

MHB Part Nos.
Image
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Re: C5 x7 handbrake mot fail

Post by jgra1 »

By manual mode, do you mean putting your foot on the brake pedal and lifting or pushing down the brake "button" engage or disengage the parking brake? How does manual mode work, other than that.
hi Rick, on mine, the only way of overriding the handbrake is to disengage it when ignition is on and engine is off.. by pressing on lever while foot on brake.. the handbrake will not engage again until engine has started and been turned off..

I think on other / earlier x7's there is a permanent override in the car dash comfort settings.. i.e. park brake is always your choice.. mine doesn't have this and I don't know if it can - at this point..

with new rear calipers is not to move the lever to the cable when installing
Lexi, why do you think this is? I am curious really.. I have seen it written many times. just wondered exactly what would go wrong if the actuation lever moved before the cable moved it?

as it stands, because I am trying to avoid the £800 handbrake cable puller (costs and arm and leg lol .. well, an arm) I bought 2 second hand calipers last night before your message.. they are cheap and may prove my calipers are nacked or not.. they should be with me tomorrow..
I have devised a very Heath R method of testing the handbrake holds on a slight hill (using a sheet of poly and a hosepipe for one wheel at a time) ;)

regarding one of the two main places on ebay for calipers (one I called and doesn't do x7 EPB) the other you linked to in your post
what I don't quite understand is the following :
The internal mechanism that drives the rear piston will have to be removed from the original piston that was on the vehicle and placed into the new piston and this is usually held in place by either a circlip or crimped in place. We are
just making you aware of this as we do not want you to throw your mechanism away with the old piston
this sounds a bit like, have a new caliper with seals and pistons (we can all make one of those) but your original handbrake mech will be fitted into the new caliper.. I am probably wrong but I now assume both my mechanisms are not working right, one is locking on and one isn't pressing enough.. so I was a bit wary of that listing..

thoughts and comments welcome ;)
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Re: C5 x7 handbrake mot fail

Post by qprdude »

Cheers John. Yes, mine is set to manual then. Basically, I can operate it that way ,and it automatically engages when the engine is stopped. There is the option to change in the "comfort" menu as you say.
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Re: C5 x7 handbrake mot fail

Post by jgra1 »

ahh.. I don't seem to have that option ;) could be why I am in the position I am in ! overuse of the EPB mech..
with an auto and not living near many hills, a handbrake is an expensive add-on :)
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Re: C5 x7 handbrake mot fail

Post by jgra1 »

a mixed bag of news..

two calipers arrived today.. just cleaned them and fitted.. part numbers slightly different from the ones that came off..
the difference for the offside is
mine - 11.3387 -0162.3
new - 11.3387 - 0038.3
otherwise exactly the same..

but.. once old ones were off, I removed the actuator return spring on both calipers.. and cant find anything wrong at all .. arms move easily, piston comes out about 2mm, and then retracts..
I was hoping something would be wrong with both of them really..

so I am short of ideas now except the probable replacement of the motor and cables after all! a used one for sure..

I will vacuum bleed tomorrow and see if the calipers are now sticking .. and then if that is ok, re mot again and pray..
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Re: C5 x7 handbrake mot fail

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I think there's a misunderstanding of this bit "with new rear calipers is not to move the lever to the cable when installing"

What they are saying is not "Do not move the lever." but "Do not connect the lever to match the way the cable is adjusted, adjust the cable to match the lever position."

I mentioned before in a post that it's to ensure that mechanical advantage is not lost by having the lever in not the best position for maximum leverage.

Ps. I think you'll find your problem is with the cable jgra, most likely is that the plastic lining has failed, curled up and causing the cable to not return, this in turn stops the auto adjust on the calliper from working hence an under performing brake on the mot test.
Man is, by nature, a lazy beast, he does not need twice encouraging to do nothing.
jgra1
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Re: C5 x7 handbrake mot fail

Post by jgra1 »

Thanks gibbo..
The cables are slack when handbrake is switched off.. easy to remove or add cables.. so no need to touch the lever.. how the cables are adjusted is a mystery.. something in diag maybe.. I am starting to wonder now if my offside cable is a mm put of adjustment and not giving full handbrake pull..

You finished your post as i was writing ;) .. both cables seem to return ok and are slack and actuators go back to their stops..
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