Glow Plugs Annihilate 2.0HDi Xsara Picasso

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ekjdm14
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Re: Glow Plugs Annihilate 2.0HDi Xsara Picasso

Post by ekjdm14 »

Just a thought, there has to be a good few 8v 2.0HDi motors in good running condition but attached to cars/vans which are beyond saving. perhaps your course or least resistance here would be (considering the low price of scrap and the fact that the engine has to come out anyhow) find an accident damaged or MoT failed vehicle with a good example of the same engine and fit that for now. Then you effectively have, in your old lump, either a "spares" engine for any future work or if it's not knackered when the head comes off, put that one back together and sell it to recuperate some cost...

Either way, knowing the engine has to come out no matter what I'd personally line up a running replacement to go straight back in ;)

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Re: Glow Plugs Annihilate 2.0HDi Xsara Picasso

Post by ekjdm14 »

And as far as fixing this one/getting to know it "intimately" in the process goes, versus replacing it with another, surely it's "better the devil you know" if it's a clean tidy and well suited car for your purposes

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Re: Glow Plugs Annihilate 2.0HDi Xsara Picasso

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

ekjdm14 wrote:And as far as fixing this one/getting to know it "intimately" in the process goes, versus replacing it with another, surely it's "better the devil you know" if it's a clean tidy and well suited car for your purposes
Thanks ekjdm14 (bit of a mouthful and difficult to pronounce :-D )

Very happy with the Picasso, and well suited to our needs so I hope to revive it, and very much agree its better the devil you know, than getting a replacement.

For now I have alternative transport so the pressure isn't really on. In my old commuting days it would have had to be sorted in a week, fix or replace, and more often than not it was fix that won the day.

I have done all investigation possible without removing the engine, so its just a question of taking it in easy stages and getting it out. I will probably still wonder at various steps whether I could free enough space without the full dropping out of the engine, but the reality is its going to have to come out.

I may have to of course, but the prospect of choosing an engine to pay say £150-£200 for, on the basis of an e-bay or equivalent ad would be last resort time for me.

Regards Neil

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Re: Glow Plugs Annihilate 2.0HDi Xsara Picasso

Post by ekjdm14 »

Doesn't have to be Evilbay for a replacement, not sure where you're located or what the breakers/scrappy situation is like, but there's 2 or 3 good old school yards round here with cars stacked 2 or 3 high and I know for a fact there's at least one 2.0HDi that was running when it got brought in, it's in a 206 on something like a 53 plate IIRC which must have had accident damage/jacking up issues in the past as it's offside sill was worse than our old S2 XM.

A decent runner in a dead bodyshell doesn't have to cost that sort of money in the current "economic climate" (ugh!) maybe just take a bit of searching. I'd bet you could find a suitable donor for not over £80.

I suppose though, seeing as you're in no rush transport wise, you may as well get the old lump out and the head off before making any decisions. Never know you may get lucky and find just a bent valve. Good luck with the job, will be interested to see how things turn out & what state the engine is actually in when the head comes up :)

Oh and the username is actually an amalgam of the missus' & my own initials/when we met, if it's any easier I'm more commonly known as Dan :-D

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Re: Glow Plugs Annihilate 2.0HDi Xsara Picasso

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

ekjdm14 wrote:Good luck with the job, will be interested to see how things turn out & what state the engine is actually in when the head comes up :)

Oh and the username is actually an amalgam of the missus' & my own initials/when we met, if it's any easier I'm more commonly known as Dan :-D
Thanks....Dan it is then :-D

... I have more than a sneaking suspiscion that after a lot of work, I may even find absolutely nothing obviously wrong to see! I scrapped a Xantia when the manual clutch had reached the far limits of its adjustment and just didn't work. This was in December, and one of those occasions where I just had to go out immediately and buy a replacement car.

When I dismantled that car, retained some parts and sent the shell to the scrapyard, I discovered rather than seeing a worn out clutch as I had expected, there was plenty of "meat" left on the driven plate, and I was left scratching my head as to the real reason for it being kaput in the first place.

...I like the tale of your username....I'm just hoping the 14 doesn't stand for Valentine's Day....that would be too much!!!

Regards Neil

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Re: Glow Plugs Annihilate 2.0HDi Xsara Picasso

Post by ekjdm14 »

haha no it's the year :D as an aside, "username" is actually my username on the Escort Cabriolet club site (imaginative, me!)

That sounds like a real kick-yourself moment with the Xant, I wonder if it was the release bearing as I've heard plenty tell of those failing although their failure mode is more often sudden & total loss of clutch without warning...

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Re: Glow Plugs Annihilate 2.0HDi Xsara Picasso

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

As if just to demonstrate the efficiency of the search facility on the forum I just put "annihilate" in the search query and I find my old post straightaway :-D

I've been doing a bit of putting back together today. Need to get it along the end of our street so the scrapman can pick it up. The sensible thing would have been just to tow it with "Ellesmere Port's finest", but I thought I would give it the dignity if possible of having a 80 metre run under its own steam. Achieved putting the camshaft back in pinning the camshaft sprocket and flywheel at TDC and slipping the timing belt back on.

I can safely say that the 2.0 HDI 8 Valve Xsara Picasso is the most irritating car I have ever had for working on.

It has specifically designed obstructions at the timing belt end for ripping human flesh, and takes delight in routing air conditioning pipes round an already hideously small space to make life even more difficult. Then the timing belt tensioner is in the most awkward position it could possibly be. Wiser heads than me might remark...did you take the engine mounting off to get better access...answer no.....didn't take it off when I removed the camshaft so didn't bother when refitting it...anyway...have you seen the tilt on that engine...remove the mount and who knows where it would slip off to.

I would still like to start it up again, so I need to sort the tension on the belt out. Its going to have to be one of those creative moments, or get yourself a new tool time because the "gap" (is there a gap at all?) is far too narrow between the tensioner and the bodywork to get a socket wrench in to turn the tensioner.

More research needed, or its going down the road like Turner's once proud "Fighting Temeraire" ignominiously towed to its final resting place.

Image

The Fighting Temeraire JMW Turner National Gallery Public Domain

Regards Neil

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Re: Glow Plugs Annihilate 2.0HDi Xsara Picasso

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Just a few bits to put back together before the drive to the end of the street adventure. My timing belt tensioner home made, worked well enough (see Tool Bag Tales for details), and the timing's spot-on, belt on and tensioned.

But dear oh dear, trying to do the simplest of tasks in that restricted space is a tool-dropping, hand jamming, flesh ripping nightmare. To be fair..I could have done with some spanners with bends in and a bit longer than the ones I was using, or a set of ratchet spanners. The good old socket set is just too wide, and the sockets too long.

I presume "torque" settings for such things as the tensioner are reasonably important. Mine...its just done up tight for want of a better phrase. Its only got to last to the end of the street after all!

I would like to see how you would ever apply a bog standard torque wrench to do the job properly without the engine being out of the vehicle.

Yes and it was the typical "sods law" working on the car afternoon. Bit of drizzle...not much...didn't matter I was only going out for 15 minutes. 2 hours later soaked to the skin, bad light and rain stopped play. My fault entirely should have given up when it started to get heavier but just plodded on with 'well I'm wet now anyway might as well finish what I started...'

Familiar or just me?

Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 02 Mar 2017, 19:42, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Glow Plugs Annihilate 2.0HDi Xsara Picasso

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I recall that, when I had a Xsara Picasso (54 reg) as a company car a colleague had a turbo failure on his Picasso with around 100,000 miles on the clock. The lease company wrote it off, as it would cost more to replace the turbo that the car was worth (it was about 2.5 years old)

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Re: Glow Plugs Annihilate 2.0HDi Xsara Picasso

Post by ekjdm14 »

No, most definitely not just you Neil lol...

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Re: Glow Plugs Annihilate 2.0HDi Xsara Picasso

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Unlike the "Fighting Temeraire" our "Wicked Red Picasso" has reversed along to the end of the street with a touch of dignity under its own Diesel. I dont think I have done anything, which would have cured the aftermath of the glow plug tip dropping into the Cylinder, but it didn't sound that bad....and before I took it to bits as I described early on in the thread....it would behave pretty normally on the open road.

One thing it did do on its little journey today, was to gush diesel from the top of the injectors where the leak off pipes fit.

I knew I haad sheared off the plastic leak off tube protrusion from injector no2 so expected a bit of diesel weepage but believe me it was more of a gush and flood, and the other injector tops appeared to be joining in for fun.

Maybe I didnt seat the leak off "unions" well enough, or for the leak off system to work all have to be intact. Hardly worth getting a new set of leak off pipes and unions, but I was surprised at the flood, and even though its going to the scrappy I would like to stop it crying diesel tears!

Regards Neil

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Re: Glow Plugs Annihilate 2.0HDi Xsara Picasso

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

NewcastleFalcon wrote: Hardly worth getting a new set of leak off pipes and unions, but I was surprised at the flood, and even though its going to the scrappy I would like to stop it crying diesel tears!


Glad to report the diesel tears have been stopped, and a little test drive revealed exactly the same situation as before, enough power to act pretty much normal, acceleration etc, but puffing smoke from the oil filler cap, and a definite failing of cylinder 4 (clutch-end) where the glow plug tip dropped in, most noticable on tick over. I suspect a holed piston, although I have seen worse smokage examples from the oil filler cap on you tube. As I always expected its an engine out job to sort out, something which I could do, but something that I am not prepared to do in terms of time/hassle so I will just have to let it go..although I am curious to find out the damage that actually has been done, and a little bit disappointed that I won't find out for sure!

Moral of the tale...don't drive into floodwater and never attempt to remove a glow plug from a 2.0Hdi Xsara Picasso!

Regards Neil

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C'est Finis....

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

At least with a little bit of dignity, our wicked red Xsara Picasso, reversed up the metal ramps and onto the back of the scrapman's wagon.

Annihilated by a glow plug...what a way to go, but I new it was coming, just needed to make the arrangements which I have been putting off thinking that I would maybe resurrect it as the weather improves and the nights are lighter.

All mercifully quick at the end, and not a single piece of paper involved in the transacxtion. A there and then mobile phone declaration and a confirmation e-mail from the DVLA.

I did have what turned out to be a totally pointless conversation with the scrapman. Went like this...as he was strapping it down to the flatbed.
Me....Drives fine, but a glow plug tip dropped down into one of the cylinders and has probably damaged the valves/piston head.

The Scrapman....Wouldn't worry about that, its going to be crushed. You might sell a wing mirror/ or rear light cluster but thats usually all.
Looks like the population of people prepared to fix up a scrapper Citroen Xsara Picasso is declining! That's maybe why the potential engine/head doner Picasso I saw in their yard the other week was in the middle of a 3-car vertical sandwich, its parts totally inaccessible.

It was a very good car, and enjoyed having it for the 5,000 or so miles before the annihilation.

Regards Neil

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Re: Glow Plugs Annihilate 2.0HDi Xsara Picasso

Post by ekjdm14 »

Shame it ended like that... At least I can redress the "balance" somewhat when the Xantia hits the road once more, hopefully sometime this week...

Pity you never got the head far enough off to see what the damage was though, would've been interesting to see.

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Re: Glow Plugs Annihilate 2.0HDi Xsara Picasso

Post by lexi »

What about an old C5 Neil. I think they are roomier, cheap and pretty easy to work on. Have you bought another car?