Saxo VTR Engine does not crank [turn over]

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aladinsane
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Re: Saxo VTR Engine does not crank [turn over]

Post by aladinsane »

Keeping the audience updated on this no start, no crank problem, today I removed the coil pack, took out the spark plugs and spun the engine, starter engaged and tried [as it will have been doing through all these operations when it was tested] and began to burn, here is why- I loosened the wheel nuts jacked up the car, removed the wheel and dropped the wheel arch liner pulling it past the hub, then moved the hose that ran along the inner wing just a little so I could get a socket onto the crank shaft , then with two 9ins long socket bars connected to each other and using a driver and an extension bar as a lever tried to turn this engine by hand [ and forgive me but its clockwise this engine rotates, not anti clockwise], so pushing downwards[ not pulling upwards] I tried to turn this engine, it would not budge, so I marked the crank with red paint and the body with red paint [so I could tell if it moves in the future] and put the road wheel back on and dropped the car. Bloody freezing out there, so I put some penetrating oil down the plug holes. I hope its gone down onto the upper cylinder walls and not onto the crown,however its deep down there so who knows, anyway I tried, then I came inside reflecting on how an engine can seize in two months and wondering how to free it. Simply must be a top end seizure as the bottom end should be bathed in oil, the oil level on the dip stick is spot on. So I am asking you kind people if you have any further ideas Jeez I must have been ff ing unlucky here, but I am not beaten yet, maybe with a little help all is not lost ! Any further ideas please, any knack anyone has tried before, just anything you can think of ?
aladinsane
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Re: Saxo VTR Engine does not crank [turn over]

Post by aladinsane »

Anyone live near Hartlepool TS27 UK who could help me with this car, supposing its jacked up, to help turn this crank shaft using an extension bar and a lever, for maybe I am just not strong enough!
jgra1
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Re: Saxo VTR Engine does not crank [turn over]

Post by jgra1 »

Wondering if you can gently turn cam.sprocket a fraction back and forwards .. like a tiny amount. May help pinpoint top.end or bottom end seize?
aladinsane
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Re: Saxo VTR Engine does not crank [turn over]

Post by aladinsane »

Still with the plugs out putting copious amounts of penetrating oil liberally into the bores I have had a lever through the starter motor aperture onto the ring gear of the fly wheel using a mirror so I could see what I was doing, foolhardy I expect, however desperate things need desperate measures [ felt like the gear teeth might snap] and the bar slipped off the teeth so didnt prolong this, and still this engine refuses to turn, got a few chaps calling who are going to help me push this engine in gear to and fro and if all else fails try to bump start it once again into action, if it still remains jammed then that will indeed be that, but lets just see this coming Tuesday.
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Stickyfinger
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Re: Saxo VTR Engine does not crank [turn over]

Post by Stickyfinger »



Well it may work
aladinsane
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Re: Saxo VTR Engine does not crank [turn over]

Post by aladinsane »

Indeed it did work, thanks for the keeping of the faith from all of the audience and the advice and suggestions, for endeavour has its own reward and so it has proved. I had all but given up, now though this engine is ticking over sweetly again, however it was not without a struggle. This is what three of us did [two strong younger men] and one less strong 66 year old. Keeping up with this post you will all recall I started liberally squirting penetrating oil into the bores for a good few days[Some of it must have been going onto the walls of the bores as I found out later]. Anyway I heated the plugs up slightly put them back and put everything else back and it was all systems go. We rocked and rocked this car whilst in gear to and fro then I tried starting it, no it would not have it, still seized, so jacked it up again and my nephew all 17 stone of him tried to turn the crank and it shifted or seemed to do so, and watched while he turned the crank again, my nephew seemed to get half an inch/inch of movement on the crank, could see from paint marks I put on bolt and body previously that it had moved, success, saw the bgr move. Dropped the car,then got in, they pushed me off the drive and along the road where I selected third, not second gear, ignition on, clutch down, flying down the road,lifted clutch, gear already engaged it let out a splutter the alternator belt slipping was smoking like hell so was the top of the engine [probably due to the penetrating oil ] and it drove shrieking like a pig. Put it back on the drive tightened the alternator belt [deflection, well its not right at the mo] but nevermind, just wanted to see if it would start with the new, old, starter motor using the ignition key, tried it umpteen times and it started everytime, so that is that then, and all is well that ends well, except to say that I used penetrating fluid not Plus Gas or Coca Cola and got away without dismantling anything, didn't have to change the oil remove the exhaust or anything else, must admit however, that although I am not completely dismissive of Coca Cola however maybe its best to clean drains with it before putting it in the engine bores lol. I extend my thanks to all that contributed on this thread and a special thanks to my nephew Carl and his friend who came all the way from outside of York to help me. Just how does an engine seize like that in just a few months,one thing is for certain I will not procrastinate any longer, it will be turned weekly as I could not go through this ordeal again. Job done.
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daviemck2006
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Re: Saxo VTR Engine does not crank [turn over]

Post by daviemck2006 »

I'd better go start my 205 soon. It has been over 4 weeks,,,,,,,,
Xantidote
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Re: Saxo VTR Engine does not crank [turn over]

Post by Xantidote »

I find it difficult to believe that an engine would seize up after standing just 4 weeks - amazing, considering that many engines must stand that long unattended. Think of all the cars standing in car dealerships unloved!

My congratulations on your perseverance, and successful outcome =D> =D>
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CitroJim
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Re: Saxo VTR Engine does not crank [turn over]

Post by CitroJim »

That is amazing! There must have been some considerable amount of damp got in at some time to have done that...

One thing I wonder about is if you have a small weep of coolant getting into the engine when stopped for some reason. Is it consuming coolant or showing any signs of head gasket failure?

As Martin says, well done :D
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Stickyfinger
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Re: Saxo VTR Engine does not crank [turn over]

Post by Stickyfinger »

=D>

but I was really hoping you would use a shotgun cartridge :)
RichardW
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Re: Saxo VTR Engine does not crank [turn over]

Post by RichardW »



A school friend's Dad had one of these - can't recall if I ever saw him start it with a cartridge though....!
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CitroJim
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Re: Saxo VTR Engine does not crank [turn over]

Post by CitroJim »

We used to have emergency diesel gensets years ago that could be started with a cartridge or else that, lots and lots of hand cranking...

They were made Tooley Hatz if I recall correctly...

Years ago it was one of my tasks to fire them up occasionally up to test them... Happy days.. Certainly good exercise swinging them over...
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jsp
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Re: Saxo VTR Engine does not crank [turn over]

Post by jsp »

Edit: just read you have started the engine.

Shouldn't be that bad I have currently an old TU engine TU9 ML/Z which had been standing 15 years still without moving and it was a dry dry engine. Well stored in very good condition with only 11.000mls.
First I put new engine oil in it.

Then did put a ratchet on the crankshaft and oil and turn it around for like 30 times and it started right away after that.

Not uncommon of failures of the ignition barrel and the starter motor. I have several AX's here which are basically same as the Saxo and replaced a few in the years.

But, headgaskets are very prone on TU engines and needs to be changed every 60k mls if driven short distances. Otherwise 150.000mls is not uncommon for long distance driving.