Citroen C5Hdi Estate

[CitroenJohn]

Hi all, thanks for all your advice on my antipollution warning light problem. After cleaning the EGR and the Air Flow Sensor the car continued to run with the fault occurring intermittently for a while. Also, when the warnings came on the car would refuse to accelerate from cold, until the car had gone about a while and then it seemed to run ok.

About five weeks ago I fitted a new EGR valve and a new Mass Air Flow sensor and the car has been ok since then - no occurrence of the warning lights coming on or the sluggishness from cold and so I am confident that I cured the fault(s). I don't use the car every day and have usually charged the battery up once a week over winter, since it has been going flat in the cold weather whilst just sitting around for up to a week at a time. I suppose it could do with a new battery but I have been trying to avoid spending more money on it and starting hasn't really been a problem, especially as the weather has been warming up.

I have done a couple of longer trips in the car and was just beginning to get some confidence in it (i.e. hate the thing a bit less) when last night, on trying to start the car to come home from a long day working on the local preserved steam railway where I volunteer, this happened:-
1. Turned the key to start the engine - engine turned over normally but wouldn't start.
2. Tried again and repeatedly got engine immobiliser fault message and the same loud "bong" noise it makes when you put it into reverse gear.
3. Looked in the owners handbook for the message which said "engine locked or key not recognised" - very helpful, thanks a lot!
4. I messed about with the door locking buttons on the key fob for a while and then tried again, whereupon the engine started and I drove home.
5. At home I stopped the engine and it restarted again ok. Later on I went out to the car and it started ok but I noticed that the time and calendar had reverted to zero and so I reset them. to the current time and date. the car still started ok.
6. A cold, wet morning today (4.5degrees C) and I went out to try again. The engine refused to start, but I didn't get a warning message until I had tried a few times; but now the "engine immobiliser fault" message comes on again and one time it said "Automatic Mode" for a second. The starter seemed to be turning the engine over ok but was getting a bit sluggish by the time I gave up. I have now put the battery on trickle charge and will try again tonight or tomorrow when it has a good charge in it.

So here I have a car which owes me a thousand quid, sitting outside my house. Even if it started I wouldn't even want to risk going to the shops in it, in case it refused to start again. The only place I would dare stop the engine is outside my own house and so the car is useless until I sort this out.
This problem is a new one on me. I have repaired other things like the antipollution fault and rebuilding a broken speedo stepper motor. I can fix mechanical things but these computer related electronic problems drive me to despair! I only wish I had taken the trouble to weld up my old ZX Estate last year and I would still have it now.

You guys and other leads on the Internet have helped me out so much in the past - can anyone please suggest what is going on now and how to fix it? Could it be something simple like the battery in the remote control key fob? A fuse or bad connection? I look forward to your replies. Thanks, John.

[CitroenJohn]

Please (preferably) reply to my new post above on 28/03/16 Re: Engine Immobiliser Fault. I have somehow ended up with two posts on the same subject - apologies for that! John.

[Peter.N.]

Hi John

I am in a similar position, I have had a 406 hdi estate for 5-6 years, done 60k+ and it has behaved impeccably, its now on 245k and looking a bit tatty so after a long search I bought another one, as a result I left the original standing for a couple of weeks and it got very damp inside and wouldn't start with the immobiliser light on.

When we eventually had a fine day I left the doors open all day, reset the BSI and low and behold it started, I then left it for another couple of weeks, very damp again and won't start at all now. I have had the Bsi ECU out from behind the dashboard and found signs of water ingress, not serious but nevertheless there, I thoroughly cleaned and dried all the connectors and - it still won't start.

When the car was running it was giving 50-60mpg, the new one I have is doing 37mpg! so I seem to have taken two backward steps, I have now taken to using my C5 which is doing about 50 mpg.

The first thing I would suggest is getting the inside of the car thoroughly dry, if that doesn't work get someone with a Lexia on to it. I am hoping to do that with my newly acquired Lexia but I haven't got it to talk to the car yet, I then hope to use it to find the cause of the ridiculous fuel consumption of the other one.

Peter

[Paul-R]

I recently stopped using my 2003 C5 after buying a newer model. The old C5 had become a bit reluctant to start even before this and I had repeatedly taken the battery out to give it a good conditioning with my smart battery charger.

The symptoms were that I would get a grunt from the starter motor as it tried to turn the engine over and then all the lights would go off and I would get the bong of doom. The display would lose its time and date information and sometimes the radio its stored presets.

I could get the car going with a jump start off a vehicle with the engine running and then, after the engine had warmed up, it would start without a problem. It would even, mostly, start the next day but if I left it alone for about a week then the problem reappeared.

My brother suggested that the battery lead clamps were not gripping properly but I dismissed this as I hadn't had a problem previously on the C5 and still didn't on the (older) Xsara which had the same clamps. He finally persuaded me to change them and he came round with some new ones on Saturday.

I've only started the car once from cold (yesterday) and will do so today shortly but the signs are good that this had cured the problem. And if you think about it, leaving the car alone will allow damp to seep into the loose-ish clamp. Regular use will delay that. In addition jump starting the car will bypass that faulty battery clamp and, additionally, give the loose clamp a little tweek when the jump lead large alligator end squeezes on.

If it's cured the problem (and I think it has) I can now prepare the old C5 for sale rather than contemplating scrapping it.

You could be suffering from a tired battery but check those clamps first.

[myglaren]

Please (preferably) reply to my new post above on 28/03/16 Re: Engine Immobiliser Fault. I have somehow ended up with two posts on the same subject - apologies for that! John.

Locked that one John as all replies have been made here.

[CitroenJohn]

Thanks Steve, sorry about posting twice.

Paul; I will clean the battery clamps but I doubt that is the problem. Still you never know! The 3Volt key fob battery is reading 2.5volts by the way.

John; I found this info on the webpage of somebody who repairs these components at rollingmotion.co.uk:
""Many modern Peugeot/Citroen vehicles suffer from BSI (Built-in Systems Interface) failure. Commonly causing the vehicle to non-start, equipment failure or economy mode displayed on dash. Normally the data held within these units becomes corrupt and ecu to bsi loses synchronisation. BSI repair coverage upto 2015 on both Citroen and Peugeot vehicles.
If your vehicle is not listed below please call for coverage......

This can be caused by some of the following factors -
1. Low battery voltage.
2. Voltage spikes.
3. Water ingress
4. Unit failure.
5. Mileage correction.
6. Pin code reading..""

I don't know what to think yet - I will wait until the battery is charged and check the battery terminals, then possibly reset the BSI?? and see what happens..

[Peter.N.]

BSI reset is the first thing to do if you haven't done it, that could be all it is.

Peter

[myglaren]

Worth checking the earth bonds too.
C5s hate voltage fluctuations and low voltage.

[CitroenJohn]

I wonder if the grief storm with sideways rain yesterday had anything to do with it? It has been a terrible winter for rain and damp conditions but this is the first time it has failed altogether. I will try the reset and the earth bonds too thank you.

[Peter.N.]

My 406 suffered from water ingress under the dashboard due to a misplaced grommet in the bulkhead.

Peter

[CitroenJohn]

Well I waited a few hours for the battery to charge up a bit more and then cleaned the battery terminals and clamps and also the earth bond where it bolts on to the inside of the engine compartment, plus the two other nearby earthing points which take three smaller leads that come from who knows where! Plenty of Copaslip too!

I tried the ignition but got an immobiliser fault message, so I then followed your resetting procedure Steve, from your post on July 16th 2012. No problem on ignition, except I had to hold the central locking button down quite a long time on the key fob and maybe had to re-press it before it worked. The engine started up fine, with only a message telling me to top up the engine oil! - it was never done that before last night but the car is parked on a slight downhill slope. Even so it is still showing two-thirds on the dipstick. I was so chuffed it started that I forgot to check the suspension yet or check / reset the other things. Mind you I'm not sure how to reset the window controls or auto lights yet......anyway, I'm touching wood for good luck at the moment and hoping the problem has gone away...

I also found this reset procedure on the web, which is perhaps not quite as comprehensive as yours Steve - what do you think? https://www.bentasker.co.uk/documentati ... -bsi-reset

[myglaren]

Under pressure I have tried a shortcut similar to that and ended up having to get the bus to work
Sometimes you can be lucky - depends on the phase of the moon and if there is an "R" in the month.

Don't know where I got the one I posted from now but it has always worked for me so I stick with it wherever possibly.

I have got stuck and had to open the driver's door before reconnecting the battery - twice - and got away with it with a few idiosyncratic warnings for a day or so.

[Paul-R]

...then cleaned the battery terminals and clamps and also the earth bond where it bolts on to the inside of the engine compartment, plus the two other nearby earthing points which take three smaller leads that come from who knows where! Plenty of Copaslip too!

Cleaning is not enough. I have the proper tools for cleaning the connections and this wasn't enough (or even a contributory fact)- the overcentre action of the standard clamps just weren't doing their job.

I'm also not sure about Copaslip on the terminals. If it's based on a mineral oil soap base then it could go off. I have always used petroleum jelly on my batteries.

[CitroenJohn]

Thanks to you both for your help today. I have been out in the car and so far everything seems to be ok - maybe I got lucky? I have printed out a copy of your reset procedure Steve and am keeping it in the car in case I need it.

I cleaned out the inside of the terminal clamps with one of those finger type wire brushes on a drill and they came up shiny. Also a bit of wet or dry to clean up the terminals, so everything is clean. I don't know about the copaslip Paul; you are probably right but I shall keep an eye on it. I don't fancy disconnecting the battery again right now since things seem to be working again. I just hope everything stays working but you will no doubt hear from me if not!

[myglaren]

Really pleased that you have got to the bottom of a tricky problem.
Hopefully others will benefit from your experience.