Failed "MOT" - rear brakes

[Ben82]

Hello all,

So today I took in the C5 for it's Swedish equivalent of an MOT. Wanted to get it done before the move this month as will be using it to tow (so wanted to make sure it was all in good nick for towing).
She failed on two points, point 1 is an easy fix (one of the front sidelights is out, can't remember if I fixed it last time).

The other is (Google translated):

Foot brake brake force distribution, rear, braking uneven

Foot brake brake disc, rear right, rust-small contact surface

He also said the unevenness could be caused by the calliper, which makes me think of Steve's post on the rear callipers. Luckily, I have until the 3rd of September to sort it.

So it seems like I'm going to need new pads and discs for the back. Would it be worth replacing the callipers on the side noted above?

I'm guessing I'm going to need to bleed the brakes too if I'm replacing everything? Do I need a windback tool too for the rear ones? And I probably should get DocBackup working again

I don't have my garage here any more either, but my plan is to get all the stuff ordered, and hopefully get this sorted when my dad is here to help with the move (and fix it at the house).

Any advice would be appreciated

[Bandit12]

Hi Ben

This is a common problem with the C5 with me included. The caliper corrodes on its mounting causing it to twist and teh pads and discs wear unevenly. I replaced the discs and pads as a set and each wheel took about an hour. The local parts factor on the corner of roundabout next to the Citroen dealer got the full set for me for £90. Maybe you can get your dad to pick up a set then bring them with him when he visits to help you move house? You dont need a wind back tool to push the rear pistons back but I recommend you get replacement brake caliper bolts and also the smaller brake pad holding bolts as they are very slim and do corrode through. This small long bolt is essential to hold the caliper together once you have removed it from the car. All these bits are a few quid from the local citroen dealer.
I would recommend an impact driver and big hammer to remove the brake disc retaining screw. The hardest part of the job is usually removing the caliper bolts as they also tend to corrode in place and are also loctited too. Lots of plus gas or similar, spend 5 minutes a day for a week just spraying the threads of the nuts and bolts that you are going remove to make life easier mate.
Good news is that unless the calipers are completely corroded through then you should not need to replace them. I'm unsure what Swedish prices are like but I found new replacements for about £120 each on ebay.
Its not a difficult job but expect the bolts to be a pain to remove and also expect the small brake pad retaing bolt to snap. I can pm you all the part numbers and screen shot of exploded diagram from citroen.doc if you wish mate.

Bandit

[darbuck]

i recently done this job its not for the faint hearted you will probably need to replace the bolts .I used a coarser threaded bolt as some of the threads were in ribbons it took me 2 days after i got the calipers off to get the bolts out of them just be patient you will need a good breaker bar to get the leverage to break the seal on the threads and it makes an absolute pig of a noise ear plugs are a must. when you get them off the arm they are no longer threaded into any thing so you will need a drift to help removing them its easier to take them off and pressure bleed them later and stick them in a vice impact one end and drift the other i know it sounds extreme but mine were extremely bad but you need to know what you might be facing just don't be scared be tenatious.By the way i reground the face of my caliper on the bench you need to seal all the metals against each other on reassembly to reduce future corrosion. best of luck there is one thing to gain here satisfaction that you didn't let it beat you ].Best of luck

[dnsey]

No need to grind the caliper faces - the calipers can be swapped between sides, and tho old outer face then serves as a new, flat mounting.
I'd be wary of using anything but original spec bolts. They're an unusual high tensile rating, which must have been specified for a reason...

[Ben82]

Thanks Guys, so much in two minds here whether to just take it to the local workshop tomorrow to get it sorted, so it's done and out of the way. Otherwise I've got to wait for parts to be delivered, then actually doing it mid-move when the car is going to be needed whereas over the next couple of days it isn't. It does sound like a bit of a headache and I would need to buy some tools at least to do the job.

[myglaren]

It is such a pain and the bolts have a desire to shear when being removed that most places will cut the callipers off with an angle grinder and bin them, replace with new ones if they are bad - Citroen dealers here will almost always do that as it is cheaper than faffing on trying to remove and refurbish them.

[darbuck]

i used high tensile stainless steel bolts i ground the calipers to get longer out of them.

[Ben82]

It is such a pain and the bolts have a desire to shear when being removed that most places will cut the callipers off with an angle grinder and bin them, replace with new ones if they are bad - Citroen dealers here will almost always do that as it is cheaper than faffing on trying to remove and refurbish them.

That's not helping! (It is, but you know what I mean!). So it's likely that they will want to replace both callipers, which is going to add almost £200 to the bill if I take it in.

Need to find something like plusgas over here, Steve, are you aware of anything? As can't get it shipped nor is it allowed on flights


Thanks

[dnsey]

Diesel fuel, perhaps mixed with a little light oil, is almost as effective.
If necessary, you can drill out the disc locating screws though. It's not even essential to replace them (the discs are actually held by the wheel bolts, of course), so you can leave that for when you have more time.
My tip is to use a spare jack to support the socket extension exactly in line with each caliper bolt when removing, which allows more torque to be steadily maintained.

[myglaren]

Sorry no, not up to date with stuff like that. If you can find it WD40 make a release oil that is comparable to plus gas, otherwise try diesel over a few days.

It may not come to that - on my estate they came off reasonably easily and were soon sorted out (not a dealer, Citeoen specialist).

This car they chucked the lot and replaced, back and front.

[myglaren]

Found something called 5-56 that might suffice. No experience of it though.

5-56 universallösning
Unika fuktdrivande och korrosionsskyddande egenskaper. Smörjer, rengör och löser rost. Fantastisk krypförmåga, tränger in överallt. Ger effektivt skydd mot elektriska och mekaniska störningar orsakade av vatten, fukt, rost, smuts eller friktion. Angriper ej lack, plast eller gummi.

[lexi]

Acetone( nail varnish remover) mixed with a little brake fluid works well too.

[darbuck]

i use this stuff all the time its very good http://www.bakerandsoars.com/store/prod ... =6765.make" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; sure you clean out the little holes on the calipers and apply through there theres 2 on each bolt lenght

[Ben82]

up until a couple of months ago we did have some 5-56 but the nozzle broke. (was using it on my hair clippers that were snagging).

Right been to the garage to get a quote for the work, they want over 5400SEK (~£400) for it. Basically they order the callipers anyway due to them often needing replacing.

Labour cost of that is 1800SEK (2hrs ~£135).

So now I basically have a budget for tools required ( as I can source the parts myself, and they'll charge me just the labour).

From what I can tell I need at least the following:

Tools and Consumables:
5-56 or WD40 (some penetrating oil anyway) = £5-£10
Impact Driver = £23 (from Opie, might be able to source one elsewhere though).
Brake Cleaner = £5
Breaker Bar (Ledhandtag) = £10-£40 depending on length
Brake Fluid = £10ish
Something to grip the brake lines if I'm going to replace the callipers (vise grips plus some tubing to protect the line from getting too squashed?)
Some kind of grease or silicon paste to prevent the bolts from corroding?
A Calliper File? = £14
Some kind of bolt extractor tools just in case it shears?

Parts and things:
Pads (set of 4)
Discs (set of 2)
Replacement Bolts (need part numbers etc).
Callipers (possibly - but could be bought later).

So if I manage to get the discs and pads replaced at least then it should pass the MOT, and can worry about the callipers later.

Anything else anybody thinks I would need? Assume I have nothing required (But I do have ramps, a trolley jack and axle stands, so don't need to mention those).

[Bandit12]

Hi mate

Seems to me the issue is time. You do not have the time to plan to do this job carefully and methodically taking into account the correct items being delivered at the right time, parts breaking etc and needing ordering because you are in the middle of moving house and need the car to tow a big trailer.

It took the various shops and dealers over a week to get all the parts I ordered before i could consider lifting a spanner.


For the sake of £400 I would book it in, let the mechanics do the job and deal with any headaches they find along the way leaving you to concentrate on the far more important task moving your family and all your possessions safely. Moving is stressful enough and time is not on your side. This way you also have the peace of mind that your not waiting for parts to be delivered (or get lost in post) and also you know the brakes will work perfectly afterwards.

Yes you could do the job and it could go easily but the worst case scanario could leave you with a broken car you cannot drive and the headache and expense of hiring another at the last minute to bail you out.

Bandit