Xantia S1 clutch

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Old-Guy
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Re: Xantia S1 clutch

Post by Old-Guy » 16 Jul 2015, 15:25

Thanks for the replies chaps.

Jim - not heavy at all, tried it with my hand as soon as I'd tighten the nut (left slack until I'd reconnected at the clutch), quite easy and smooth to operate. Clutch, and all the other controls for that matter, lighter than the little 206 I ended up borrowing to go and collect the Boss (SWMBO) - hence the early start this morning.

Upside down in the foot-well by 7:15 this morning - spring still in place in the plastic clip. So I'd done around 100 miles before the new spring let go. Job done by 10:30.

Richard - When I got the pedal off again, spring clip still in place and no obvious damage, bar a couple of bright points where the clip was hitting the pedal arm; . So did it all again - easier second time around - this time putting the spring clip on top. Checked the clutch bite point and not dragging; put the air-cleaner and interior trim back before going for a quick test drive, Started to back up to turn round - BANG - gone again; foot on brake so stalled the engine rather than hitting something. Clutch was fully depressed and static, so clip just opened. That seems to eliminate the nylon bushes for the clutch operating lever.

As a matter of interest, if the 'thinned' section at the top of the pedal were slightly larger, the cut-out in the spring clip would clear the pedal arm. Another instance of value engineers saving a few centimes?

Anyone come across damage to the nipple on an original cable as a result of an original black plastic clip breaking? And subsequent problems with a new spring clip letting go?

As of today, no more evening commutes. No essential use for a week, so i have time to get it properly sorted. As I bought a new clutch cable to save vital time if one was needed, I'm inclined to remove the old cable so I can take a good look at its nipple, and 'bench-test' the new clip on both cables. Maybe the cause will be obvious when I can see what going on? If in doubt, I'll get a new clip kit. Obviously I might as well fit the new cable rather than the old.

I've got the original spring clip, the original failure was down to the plastic moulding breaking, so it shouldn't be distorted. I'll carefully compare the two.

I took a few photos and I'll add them to the post when I've got time.

Xantidote
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Re: Xantia S1 clutch

Post by Xantidote » 16 Jul 2015, 20:01

Sorry the new clip's not fully sorted it. Hopefully you'll get to the bottom of it when you remove the old cable. Await your report and photos in due course

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CitroJim
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Re: Xantia S1 clutch

Post by CitroJim » 17 Jul 2015, 13:34

Guy, I don't know if I still have it but I did have a billet aluminum clutch clip. If I do, and I can look tomorrow, you can have it...

You'll never break that one!!!

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Re: Xantia S1 clutch

Post by Old-Guy » 17 Jul 2015, 16:42

Jim that's a very generous offer, thank you. At the moment the problem seems to be the spring steel clip, rather than the plastic part. I strongly suspect that the problem lies either with the nipple on the cable or with the fitter!

I'm off now to lie on my back with my head under the pedals for half an hour to get the pedal out yet again and see what's happened. Report later.

UPDATE:
It took me just quarter of an hour to remove the pedal - clip exactly as it should be, but detached from the cable! Haven't taken off the old cable - yet!

So, taking a hard look at the new nylon moulding, old and new clips and the nipple on the new cable:
The jaws of the new spring clip are slightly tighter than the old on the new nipple (they just snag, the old has maybe 5 thou clearance),
The new moulding has a tiny little bit flashing in the slot for the spring clip - I wouldn't have thought enough to make any difference, but I'll clean it out with a very sharp blade,
With my fingers, I can squeeze the jaws of both spring clips until they touch - neither take a permanent set, and there's no discernible difference in stiffness.
Baffled! :?

The new spring clip sits tight on the shank of the nipple of the new cable, so I think I'll have to press on with plan B in the morning and change the cable - perhaps the (mild steel) nipple on the original one is a bit worn, I can't think of any other reason why the spring clip should lose its grip while the clutch is being held down.
Last edited by Old-Guy on 17 Jul 2015, 22:06, edited 1 time in total.

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CitroJim
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Re: Xantia S1 clutch

Post by CitroJim » 17 Jul 2015, 17:16

Ahh yes, that spring-steel bit never looked up to the job to my eyes Guy... It always amazed me it seems to be generally OK...

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Old-Guy
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Re: Xantia S1 clutch

Post by Old-Guy » 17 Jul 2015, 22:14

The jaws bear on such a small part of the nipple, it amazes me that they don't pop off the first time the clutch is depressed. Second cause cited I fear (fitter error) - I probably didn't get it seated home completely; but there's no way to tell! I've got a teensy-weensy cross-pein hammer with a long thin handle that might just get above the clip to give it a few feeble taps.

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Re: Xantia S1 clutch

Post by Old-Guy » 18 Jul 2015, 14:04

I have swapped the cables this morning (Saturday) and had a look at the nipple on the old cable - definitely slightly chewed at two, diametrically opposite, points. I had intended to measure the nipple on the new cable one before fitting but forgot; I'm NOT taking it off now, but I will try the old nipple in the new clip assembly; The new nipple was a snug fit in the new plastic sleeve when I 'bench-tested' it last night - I have a nasty suspicion that the old nipple is smaller and was a rattle fit in the new plastic moulding. I have taken a couple of pictures of the damage to the nipple - not major but perhaps enough, with the aforesaid play, to allow the nipple to jump out.

I'm aware that the number of S1 Xantias still with original clutch cables is probably very small, quite possibly now zero, but there may be some poor soul with a low mileage Xantia yet to have the original plastic clip shatter.

During my 'bench-tests' last night, I fitted both spring clips (one at a time!) in the plastic moulding and measured how much the moulding was holding the jaws open - trivial less than 0.25mm. I also tried pushing the nipple into place while the clip was already seated - not difficult at all :shock: so this afternoon I shall replace the pedal with the clip fully assembled and try pushing the nipple into the spring clip rather than trying to fit the spring clip virtually blind.

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Re: Xantia S1 clutch

Post by Northerner » 18 Jul 2015, 14:45

I feel your pain. My Nreg is still on its original cable and clip after 100k. Need i worry? Clutch isn't THAT heavy although not feather light either..

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Re: Xantia S1 clutch

Post by CitroJim » 18 Jul 2015, 15:34

Mike, you should be OK as long as the clutch is not feeling unduly heavy...

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Re: Xantia S1 clutch

Post by CitroJim » 18 Jul 2015, 16:58

Guy, I've dug out that ally clip...

If you'd like it drop me a PM with your address and I'll pop it in the post in the week...

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Re: Xantia S1 clutch

Post by Old-Guy » 18 Jul 2015, 20:09

Jim, bless you for the offer, but let's hang fire for a few days. I don't think my back and right arm cope with any more fiddling with the clutch pedal for a few days. This getting older lark is a right pain in all sorts of places.

I finished fitting the new cable this afternoon - pushing the nipple into the clip pre-assembled onto the pedal. With care, popped into place quite easily, no brute force required and a nice satisfying Click!. I pumped the pedal up and down in bare feet (boots off working inside the car - I've had to shampoo the front seats once already this week!) - clutch operating smoothly. Pumped the pedal endlessly, the cable outer seems to have bedded-in a bit at each end, so the bite point is a bit close to the floor. ABS light on - a quick spin down the road and back didn't clear it - penny dropped: I disconnected the OSF sensor to remove the old clutch cable and forgot to reconnect it.

Back-ache stopped play (and it was tea-time). We don't need the car until Tuesday so I'll pop it on the lift first thing Monday morning; it will take longer to position the arms and lift the car than to snap the connector back together, but will be a damn sight easier and quicker than putting the car on stands and grovelling underneath. I'll also have to re-adjust the clutch - I don't want to find in rush-hour traffic on Tuesday evening that the clutch is starting to drag.

I might just have cracked it at last. [-o<

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Re: Xantia S1 clutch

Post by CitroJim » 18 Jul 2015, 20:23

Guy, I hope so =D>

I've had the 'joy' of that job a few times now and I found all the blood rushing to your head was a real problem...

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Re: Xantia S1 clutch

Post by Old-Guy » 20 Jul 2015, 22:38

As a sufferer of hypotension (low blood pressure), lying with my feet higher than my head is supposed to help the thought processes. :-D More seriously, I don't normally have to think about orientation when working on the car, but lying on my back in the foot-well, job I found myself constantly confused about which way round the pedal/cable/clip/bolt fitted - I had to keep reminding myself that the clutch pedal is nearest to the tunnel and is pressed towards the engine to disengage the clutch, perhaps it's just a matter of strong conditioning that the clutch is on the left, and you press it down, but when you're upside down, left is right and down is up! :?

A couple of days afterwards, it's the bruises on my lower back that are the problem!

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Re: Xantia S1 clutch

Post by Xantidote » 21 Jul 2015, 10:24

Old-Guy wrote:I found myself constantly confused about which way round the pedal/cable/clip/bolt fitted
:-D Don't worry, I had the same problem. Might sound daft to those that haven't been there, but I found working upside down quite dis-orientating

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Re: Xantia S1 clutch

Post by Old-Guy » 24 Jul 2015, 14:44

I've sort of come to the conclusion that it's because you are in effect working standing on your head. I've never had this problem working while lying on my back under the car.

So far so good - I've used the car at every excuse but not done a lot of miles, but then it's use of the clutch that counts, and tootling around town means plenty of that. Parallel parking the car in a tight space yesterday, the thought crossed my mind 'I hope the clutch clip doesn't let go...'

BTW - started creating a Wiki article on the subject.