MikeT's C5r 1.6 hdi Estate

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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CitroJim
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Re: MikeT's C5r 1.6 hdi Estate

Post by CitroJim »

Zelandeth wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 18:31
I was finding bits of the blasted thing for months.


CDs can explode quite spectacularly if spun up fast enough ;) I once encountered a CD drive that lost its speed regulation... Again, kept finding bits of shattered CD for months afterward embedded into odd places around the workshop :lol:

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Re: MikeT's C5r 1.6 hdi Estate

Post by MikeT »

Well, it's been great fun.... and thanks for all the fish! 8-)

Following today's news, if I'm going to have to give up my car and take autonomous transport instead, I think I'd much prefer to realise a dream I've coveted since childhood and take to the skies to get to my destinations.

I'd much sooner put myself in the hands of a multicopter, of which I have far greater trust than what's going to be imposed on us.


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CitroJim
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Re: MikeT's C5r 1.6 hdi Estate

Post by CitroJim »

MikeT wrote:
22 Nov 2017, 17:09
I'd much sooner put myself in the hands of a multicopter, of which I have far greater trust than what's going to be imposed on us.


That's definitely not for me Mike, as driverless cars aren't :evil: You'll never get me in one of those flying things and certainly not a driverless car...

Well, you might once but then my next journey would be in a hearse; I'd have been terrified to death :twisted:

I'll just carry on riding my bike if you don't mind :)

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Zelandeth
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Re: MikeT's C5r 1.6 hdi Estate

Post by Zelandeth »

Could be worse Jim, it could be a hovercraft.

I've "driven" one once...The truth definitely is there that by the time you've seen an obstacle it's too late - you are going to hit it. No, the fact that it's seven miles away in the distance doesn't matter in the slightest.

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Re: MikeT's C5r 1.6 hdi Estate

Post by MikeT »

I'm not so much concerned about proven driverless cars, it's the intended cutting of red tape to leapfrog the competition to allow live unproven testing on our roads that's worrying me most.

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Re: MikeT's C5r 1.6 hdi Estate

Post by myglaren »

I spotted in GP that Volvo are delivering 24,000 self driving cars to Uber.
Original article in Wall Street Journal.

Also just heard about Tesla's scheme with the new model to allow others to use it and for it to drive around picking up passengers on its own to reduce the purchase cost. Almost all functions operated from the touch screen that can be configured to lock out unauthorised passengers

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Re: MikeT's C5r 1.6 hdi Estate

Post by MikeT »

It's a race to see which country will be the first and it seems we've bet our economy on it being us. Here's a few headlines I found...

Jaguar Land Rover has quietly started testing driverless cars on British roads that are simultaneously being used by the general public, in a clear indication that Britain’s biggest manufacturer is determined the country will play a leading role in the race to develop autonomous vehicles

UK to allow road tests of fully driverless cars by 2019

So far, 2017 has seen a raft of announcements regarding driverless cars, with Apple finally announcing it's joining the driverless car race. The UK government has also given the green light to perform trials on public roads later this year, with Chancellor Philip Hammond promising "fully driverless cars" without a safety attendant on board on roads in the UK 2021.
And despite the dominance of the US, Japan and Germany, could the UK compete in the rush to get driverless cars on the road?
Google and Tesla have been developing driverless cars in the US, where the Vienna rules don’t apply and traffic laws differ by state

Earlier this month, the European Commission proposed a major overhaul of EU telecoms law that would modernise and speed up internet networks to support industrial broadband use for technologies like driverless cars.

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CitroJim
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Re: MikeT's C5r 1.6 hdi Estate

Post by CitroJim »

Severe concern has been raised about how these driverless cars will cope with horses and cyclists...

There's concern about how they will differentiate between a ridden horse, cycles and wild animals on the roads - all of which require different treatments.

Whilst most would like to see us gone, both bikes and horses are fully legitimate road users and we must be taken into consideration...

I remain very scared of this foolhardy rush to driverless; it just may be the last straw for me and drive me off the road completely and for good :evil:

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Re: MikeT's C5r 1.6 hdi Estate

Post by MikeT »

The personal multicopter is looking even more enticing then :D

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Re: MikeT's C5r 1.6 hdi Estate

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I also have doubts about how these vehicles will cope with the unknowns. Crashes, accidents, collisions by other vehicles, things falling off lorries, the list goes on. Without the human intuition and reaction, a driverless vehicle despite its technology cannot anticipate situations or react appropriately factoring everything going on.

Just look at aircraft that have the most sophisticated equipment on board to fly and land the plane. But it cannot cope with the unexpected and are, as we know not infallible and been the cause of crashes. I really doubt the safety of these driverless cars and also their ability to factor in all the other non obvious conditions. There will be deaths for sure and a lack of public confidence. The question will be whether they can legally force you to use one.

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Re: MikeT's C5r 1.6 hdi Estate

Post by Stickyfinger »

Funny that with so much congestion and built-up areas, the Uk is a prime development area as big cities have slower moving traffic and larger areas of fixed structures making it easier to develop driver-less vehicles. Time to cover the green belt with bricks :)

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Re: MikeT's C5r 1.6 hdi Estate

Post by CitroJim »

Stickyfinger wrote:
23 Nov 2017, 10:19
Time to cover the green belt with bricks :)


That is being rapidly attened to... The Oxford-MIlton Keynes-Bedford-Cambridge 'corridor' being a prime instance ;)

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Re: MikeT's C5r 1.6 hdi Estate

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I think the result is likely to be that driverless vehicles will need dedicated roads and segregated traffic for a long long time before they get fully adopted into general use.

A return of the 'red flag man' walking in front. :-D

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Re: MikeT's C5r 1.6 hdi Estate

Post by GiveMeABreak »

That won't happen either - they can't maintain the roads we have, yet alone build any more for these things - which will mean an additional 2 lanes in each direction - unless everyone will be going single file on a single carriageway with NO overtaking. What will happen to the existing hard shoulder? No, they won't do that - they will use the exisitng roads, we will have a load of accidents and at worse fatalities before the whole thing is consigned to the bin.

Reminds me of the film 'Sully' that I watched the other night - The film follows pilot Chesley Sullenberger's January 2009 emergency landing of US Airways Flight 1549 on the Hudson River, in which all 155 passengers and crew survived with only minor injuries, and the subsequent publicity and investigation.

In a nutshell the airline put too much faith in re-enacting simulations of the event and tried to blame him for not turning back to one of the 2 airports - as both sims showed it could be done.

In the end, what they all forgot and as demonstrated at the investigation, they did not factor in the human element - decision making - best course of action to take - running through the procedures - using your experience and making the final call that saved all the passengers. When they allowed an extra 35 seconds in the sims for all this - every sim crashed the plane into buildings that would of killed everyone and of course would of taken hundreds / thousands of lives most likely from those on the ground.

All good and wonderful - but without the human anticipation / reaction element to deal with the 'unknowns' that computers and sensors cannot measure - (Acts of God / weather - actions of others - intentionally or otherwise) they will never prevail and I will never set foot in one.

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Re: MikeT's C5r 1.6 hdi Estate

Post by MikeT »

There are traffic laws that prevent the use of AV's as intended; requiring manned supervision, whether in the vehicle or outside, to be able to stop the AV. There are also telecom laws preventing vehicles being internet-connected/controllled - another requirement for assisted driving.
In the race to be "global leaders" in AV's, the government intends to cut those red tapes.
So much for learning from the Grenfell disaster, huh?