MikeT's C5r 1.6 hdi Estate

[MikeT]

Some things I just can't ignore, especially when it relates to safety equipment, like the ABS/ESP (though it never put the light on nor show any warning on the multi-display). This is due to the MOT advisory of uneven brake force and the way it wanted to steer itself under emergency braking loads.

I'm pleased to report after following the recalibration procedure the fault is now cleared.

I did suspect the glow plugs being the cause so will add it to the non-priority worksheet..... and the radio well yes it all works fine but am curious to know if it's got an input I could hack into for MP3's and/or hands-free integration. I believe the next regen is due in about 100miles and Lexia reports 3L of additive in the tank. Is there any way to tell the process is occuring while driving? I think Lexia said it was due in about 140Km's. (Still irritated it doesn't use miles!!!)

Ah, right the Engine Relay Unit is the relay/fuse box under the bonnet - the one Citroen says is "forbidden" to mess with. I'll see if I can spot any part numbers on mine when I get the chance - again, not a priority as this point.

Thanks for the feedback. This car is really growing on me (though it's length is proving a bit of a parking problem)

[bxzx16v]

Good to hear your getting on with your C5 Mike, I've had two myself and found them a comfy car.

Mark

[MikeT]

Electrics are starting to concern me now, especially since the engine relay/fusebox has been called into question. What with the dipped beam lighting density occasionally changing (hard to define as I can't study it while driving) I noticed last night the n/s sidelamp is now non-functional.

[RichardW]

Fuse box is a common failure, wouldn't worry about that. If you take the top off the fuse box, you will see the number written on the side of it examples here: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=49845" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; If you post the VIN I'll check what should be fitted - although the Cit number doesn't necessarily relate to the number on the box itself....!

Headlights can flicker when the susp pump kicks in - it's a known 'feature' of C5s

There's no real way of telling the DPF is regenning. The rear window comes on, so if it's wet or steamed up you will see it clearing. You may also notice a slight rough running on light throttle, and instantaneous fuel consumption / range goes down. Although it says km, it means miles I think - if you do a code clearance it asks for the odo reading in km, but it wants the number in miles....

[MikeT]

I don't have VIN to hand but can get it later. I do have acess to Service Citroen and a local copy installed on Lexia laptop - can I find the fusebox info myself there somewhere?

I did wonder if the headlights dimming was an electrical load kicking in so that's cleared that one up, thanks. After reading about sidelamps commonly failing, thought I'd order some LED's in the hope they'll not fail as often - any thoughts on this quirky fault? Also got a cruise control fault thrown up on display yesterday, though it's cleared itself today. (Think I might have knocked the brake switch when I was getting myself familiar with pollen filter the other day). And the electric windows don't behave as expected, except the drivers one. The passenger front can go up or down alternatively pulling switch up to first position and the rears have a mind of their own when switch operated in second position, whether they'll go full open/close or in steps. And yes, I've tried "resetting" them as per handbook several times but still the same.

[RichardW]

Looks like there is only 1 fuse box for C5II - 6500CK. Can't get a list price, but 2 on e-bay at around £150 6500CK Later boards are much cheaper, so quite possible someone has fitted a later one, and the BSI is a bit confused about the functions! I tried a different one on my C4 Picasso, Lexia reported it was the wrong one - and the wipers didn't work!!

I've got LEDs in the sidelights in our C4 Picasso as they use those silly 6W offset pin halogens - a pair of LEDS was about the same price as a single Halogen from Halfords! Been in at least 2 years without trouble, whereas my understanding is the halogens last about 3 nano seconds My guess is just that the 6W is too much for the bulb volume and it burns out quickly.

Trouble with the switch unit in the door, which is of course, a network hub rather than just a switch, is not unknown either. New ones from Citroen are pricey - £100 + (can't get a price out of service.citroen at present....). It might be possible to strip it down and clean the contacts to improve it, but otherwise replacement required. You can try with Lexia to check the others are working properly, but you should also be able to see what signals the switches are sending.

[MikeT]

Been tied up trying to get familiar with lexia (there's so much more to a C5 VTR than a low-trim-level Xantia TD!! lol ) and investigate the reported faults and issues, mainly the steering wheel angle sensor. In contradiction, the documentation states Hydractive 3 doesn't have steering wheel angle sensor.

Anywho, there's no fusebox number I can discern though I can see a bar code sticker on the inner side (between it and the ECU to it's left) that I have no hope of reading without further dismantling.


There's also a multidisplay permanent fault described as "absence of +PERMANENT on the display" but it seems to be fully working otherwise.

Looks like I'll need to remove the battery (did someone mention BSI reboot procedure?) to gain access to the sidelight holder. Really don't want to be going there as often as some are reporting! Come on LED's.

Your explanation re the window switch makes sense as the close on locking has no difficulty at all closing the passenger front window so it must be a faulty switch. Think I can live with it for now at that price, especialy if the passenger's switch works ok (which I haven't tested) and as you advise, the lexia reports all else is ok.

And just to clarify, my RPO is 10168, not 10254, right?


And finally, as expected, on removing the engine cover (one stub missing) there's a distincy oily mess around one of the injectors (third from cambelt end)

[RichardW]

Going by the pics on ebay, that is the correct original fuse box, so don't know what it's upset about! If everything works, then I would just ignore it.

The oil around the injector is more of an immediate concern - that one is always the one that leaks. Do not delay, get the filter out of the turbo oil feed pipe ASAP. Blowby on this injector, combined with the filter, may well be the cause of turbo death on this engine. The injector can wait, but don't delay on the filter - the turbo may well pack up and go home without warning - ours did, at just about 70k.....

You are right on the RP no. The CJ is the factory. Don't know what the other number is

[MikeT]

Everything (auto lights, wipers etc) seem to be fault-free so yeah, happy to ignore the (con)fusebox "fault" for now, especially as you've ID'd as original/correct part. But it will irk me not knowing "why". It's a matter of logic after all (albeit complex).

As I understand gaining access to turbo oil feed filter, the DPF has to come off? I don't suppose you have a link to a step-by-step instructional (preferably pictorial) of doing this job? It seems I'm being lazy but I have to plan all in advance so I have the parts and tools at hand. Any oversight (not usually realised until part-way into dismantling) means extremely frustrating delays as I cannot work at home, instead relying on and arranging a time-slot to use someone's pit 15miles away (from civilisation!).

[MikeT]

Draft Plan (a work in progress) for immediate (80,000mile) servicing.

1. Engine oil and filter change. Includes checking and rectifying dirty filters in sump, turbo feed and vac pump.
Requires removal of engine shield, DPF (possibly radiator and therefore new coolant?) and sump.
2. Renew injector seals incl seat cleaning/recutting if necessary. Possibly fit revised clamps and new studs.
3. Cambelt replaced incl pulleys tensioners, water pump (requires new coolant). Possibly replace auxiliary belt, pulley and tensioner also
4. Renew air, pollen and fuel filters.
5. Check brake discs and friction linings and renew fluid.

Parts, sundries and tools required

4L Total quartz 7000 10W/40 (sump socket size?) (nb. Oil to be used as "temporary" flushing oil, refill with INEO 5W/30 after)
3L Coolant (GLYSANTIN G33)
Filters: Oil, air, fuel, pollen (27mm socket)
Sump sealant
Cleaning agents
Injector seal and clamp kit, 7mm hex, angle gauge, torque wrench, seat cutter)
Cambelt kit
Auxilary belt kit
(1 or 2L?) DOT4 synthetic brake fluid

...

[MikeT]

Cambelt kit arrived today so next purchase needed is coolant, though I have to wait for monthly budget to afford it (next week).
Advice seems to be to buy from Citroen main dealer. It's the "for life" type (colour in tank is orange) which I'm told is Citroen's recommended. I'll look up the capacity in the hanbook but does it need mixing, and at what ratio so I know what quantities I need?

Meanwhile, there's a distinct flatspot/hesitation/sometimes chugging at low rpm when accelerating gently or even just cruising. One fix for similar symptoms I read about was a replacement egr vac solenoid. What's the best way to diagnose this as the other owner said the several garage diagnotics showed no faults (but didn't mention live parameter readings).

[RichardW]

Mike

Been away....

Turbo filter - yes, you need to remove the DPF to get at it. whether you need to remove the rad will depend on where it is mounted in the C5 - there is a lot of room under the bonnet, so they may have put it further forward leaving enough room to get the heatshield out without taking the rad out. To get the DPF out: undo the 7 bolts on the heatshield (either 10mm hex head or T20(?) - they're all the same. The one behind the AC comp is awkward - especially if 10mm head. Remove the two sensing pipes - 19mm open ender required (bottom one requires the removal of the undertray if still fitted). These may seize in, bottom one can be left (disconnect at the rubber tube), but the top one needs to come out or you can't get the shield off. If it won't come then you will need to get inventive.... new tube is abut £30 if you have to chop it off....! Remove the two clamps top and bottom of the DPF (16mm). Spring the off set washer to release the tension, then remove the clamp - which is much easier if you've got a pair of the proper clamp pliers. Unplug the temp sensor half way down the NS. Remove the two 13mm nuts holding the dpf on and drop it out of the bottom. remove the rear heat shield (lifts off I think) and you will now be able to get to the bottom banjo joint for the oil feed - remove this (10mm allen) and pick the filter out of the end (small screwdriver of similar). In theory you should replace the washers, but I just refitted on the pug and no leaks. Take care to lift the dpf properly onto the turbo before tightening the top clamp - or it leaks and you have to take it all out again.....

Sump - easy enough, especially if you do when the DPF is off as this improves access to the bolts under (above really!) the exhaust. 8mm bolts - long extension required. There are also 2 10mm nuts at either end - on the belt end there are 2 on the stud, remove the first then lift the water pipe out of the way. Once all are out, wind out the two studs you took the nuts off (E4) and this will pull the sump off. Cleaning off the old sealant is a nasty messy job!! Oil pick up is removed by undoing 3 (captive) T20 (?) bolts. Rip the strainer out using a pair of long nosed pliers or similar.

Vac pump - dead easy - remove the inlet air hose; undo the long stud with the ball on the end for the air pipe (13mm hex), and then the 10mm stud at the other side and wiggle the pump put - there's an o-ring where it fits in the head. Filter obvious once removed - just give it a clean if cruddy.

Injectors - don't know, farmed it out to the garage. However, guy there says they only do ones that are leaking, as there is a risk that the injectors don't like being out - said they used to do them all, but after having to fit 4 new injectors on one car, they only do the ones that are leaking now!

Cambelt is easy ish on this engine - described OK in Haynes. i would buy the timing kit for a few quid, includes a pin to lock the flywheel to get the crank bolt out (although it's not very tight really) - difficult to put the pin in by yourself though! Supposed to replace the crank bolt - Citroen helpfully only sell them in twos!! Singles avaialable on the bay at around dealer price (£3.50). We drained the coolant the pipe next to the sump - there is a handy rubber / steel connection, but it's got a clic loc fitting on it, so pliers required, or a jubilee to replace it. Needed quite a big jemmy to pry the water pump off the block....! Only way we could get the belt back on was to fit it at the same time as the idler - due to the crank sensor pick up you can't have the belt half on the bottom pulley. I just diluted the coolant 50:50 - should be good enough for UK weather!

No vac solenoid on the EGR on these - it's electrically controlled, and should throw a fault code if not working correctly. You would need a Lexia to check rail pressures / air flow / EGR info. gunked up vanes in the turbo can cause flat spots - push down the actuator with the engine off, and check that it springs right back up immediately.

[MikeT]

Wow, thanks Richard. Very detailed so I'll be printing this off for sure.

[RichardW]

Remembered more info on the cambelt change: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=48780" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[MikeT]

The offer of the use of a pit has been put on the back burner as the owner has been diagnosed with a life-changing illness, I'm sad to say. My needs are insignificant in comparison so I won't pursue the favour.

I therefore decided to at least give the car an oil and filters change on the roadside. The other work will have to wait for now as my own health and limited mobility means I can't do much in one go and even hauling the tools out (and packing them away) leaves me needing a rest. The following took me 3 hours in all.

First up was to remove the engine undertray. Three (should be four) 10mm bolts removed allowed me flex the main tray enough to slip it out of the way. I didn't remove the smaller front tray as one fastener just rotates without unscrewing (the other main fastener was missing) and I couldn't tell what others needed to be undone.



This is the O/S end of the "bib" piece (with fastener missing) that fits under the length of the bumper. Any idea what I need to get to replace it?

With that out of the way the oil was drained from the sump plug and noticed how stinky it was (compared to xantia oil changes). Next up was to remove the air pipework which was relatively easy because it hadn't been refitted properly anyway. Aside from the missing battery cover and the pipe failing to "clip" securely into the battery piece hole (a tie-wrap was in place to keep it secured to the lugs) the other end of the pipe (at the airbox) wasn't connected either! And then I discover the airbox itself is just dangling loose

Checked the turbo shaft for play (as if I know what I'm looking for) and it seemed pretty tight. There was a eeny bit of side-to-side movement but I understand that's because it's supposed to "float" on the oil.

Got the airfilter out and boy, what a mess it was.




At first, I assumed my suspicions were confirmed and that the recent service receipt was BS but when I lifted the airbox out to see how it's supposed to be located, I found myself covered in soot. I also noticed the two lugs on the underside were snapped off.

Peering down the back of engine for a source of the soot I see this and wondered, can it get any worse?



Well maybe. There's a cut wire on the MAF sensor plug. As the diagnostics shows no faults, I'm not sure if this is "normal" or what.



I then replaced the oil filter, air filter and fuel filter which seemed to go ok, except on the fuel filter, the lower electrical connector doesn't seem to do anything. It's socket is bare plastic. Anyone know what it's for? Obviously, refitting the air pipes wasn't ideal and I failed to get both the airbox and the connected pipe securely located. I expect this air filter will also get soot-fouled in short time.

I then thought I could at least check the vac pump filter but I failed even that simple task. Haynes seems to show a different pump internals. I removed the faceplate(?) but couldn't see a filter in there so tried pulling the rotor out but it wouldn't let go so I just re-assembled it rather than dig myself into a deeper hole.

After refilling the oil and priming the fuel filter, it then refused to start at first but eventually it kicked into life, flashing OIL and SERVICE at me. It's taken 3.5L of Quartz 7000 so should be safe until I top up after a short drive and where I can find a more level surface to do so.

So that's it for now. Fresh oil and filters at ODO reading of 069815. I hurt like I've gone a round with Tyson but at least I know it's got fresh blood at last.