Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

[bobins]

For a long production run, bare bones construction and rising prices - a Land Rover would fit the bill, but that somehow doesn't seem to be a Zel-mobile to me

[CitroJim]

I can 'see' Zel in a Panda Neil so a good call

[NewcastleFalcon]

I can 'see' Zel in a Panda Neil so a good call

The more I read about the PANDA more fits into place...It was purposely designed to be simple like the 2CV listen to this...nb Zero was the working name for the PANDA design.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Panda

During the design gestation, Giugiaro took particular inspiration from a folding lounge chair in conceiving the seats of the Zero; simple, easy to maintain, modular, inexpensive to manufacture. To ensure its practicality, he conceived that the Panda's cargo area should accommodate no less than two 50-liter wine demijohns, along with a full complement of passengers. From its inception, the project would use monocoque construction with a nearly flat floor and a sufficiently high roof to accommodate upright seating.

The Panda also had a CVT transmission, and sold in millions.

Neil

[mickthemaverick]

Taking all those points and conclusions into consideration I have to agree the Panda is a very good shout but for the fact that I don't see it being a short term bit of fun to have around - hardly a conversation maker. So if it turns out to be something else I would consider a Wartburg or the previously mentioned Trabant!!

[NewcastleFalcon]

Taking all those points and conclusions into consideration I have to agree the Panda is a very good shout but for the fact that I don't see it being a short term bit of fun to have around - hardly a conversation maker. So if it turns out to be something else I would consider a Wartburg or the previously mentioned Trabant!!

The good old Trabant definitely fits the "stupidly long production run" category on a look at wiki but are people actually paying hard-earned for them in 2023 forcing prices to creep up, or just borrowing them for a bit of fun! We may find out Getting a little cooler on the PANDA now

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant

Neil

[bobins]

Well, it was definitely a "people's car", it had a non-ferrous body like the Invacar, it's about as basic as you could get, has (had) an air cooled engine like the Invacar.......

[mickthemaverick]

Indeed, and from that Wiki page Neil linked to, this comment very much fits:

Known for its dull colour scheme and cramped, uncomfortable ride, the Trabant is an object of ridicule for many Germans and is regarded as symbolic of the fall of the Eastern Bloc.

[Gibbo2286]

There were some sported up versions of the Panda, memory's gone but there was Sisley model iirc.

[Zelandeth]

As an aside, if these things ever become irritating, please let me know. It's all just intended to be a bit of fun.

I've got quite a bit to unpick here!

With so many well-thought guesses and no answer as yet, and the field of possible answers as a result narrowing, a restatement of what you have revealed Zel, and my own further guesswork.

In relation to the Fiat 500

No, I really don't fit in them either - better than the Mini though, and the suspension not being so firm at least meant I didn't just about give myself concussion every time I hit a bump.

Conclusion...the mystery car must be bigger than a Mini or Fiat 500

Nope, it has a fixed roof.
Conclusion...unsurprisingly...not a convertible or indeed one of those CC things, rag top etc, but not ruling out a fixed head coupe of the two-seater type

Not a Reliant. Though that's a good shout....There are some similarities in certain design elements though.( refers to the Rialto)
Conclusion...a good shout for similarities ie glass fibre or a good shout because Zel would have another one.? The comment rules out the Scimitar as well for me

Lets have a look at the Rialto...what does that front end remind you of

Reliant Rialto - Flickr - mick - Lumix(1)
Mick from England, CC BY 2.0 <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0>, via Wikimedia Commons

I guess one of the biggest clues I can give is that it's a car about which there is nearly as much misinformation and nonsense urban myths out there as there are about the Invacar.

Conclusion A trawl through much maligned car models may pop the mystery car out.....Most of Eastern Europe's offerings and which Zel has had much experience of from Lada, to Skoda, and others possibly extending into FSO Polonez, Wartburg, Trabant etc. and the habitual British Favourites for the maligners, Hillman Imp/Avenger/Hunter; Allegro/Maestro/Montego/Marina/Ital and even the absolutely gorgeous now TR7; Vauxhall's Chevette, Viva, Nova, Belmont etc.

for something else I've always wanted a shot of. Not something I'd ever pictured as a long term fleet member, but something it would be fun to have around for six months or a year as a bit of fun. However prices have generally climbed to a point which always felt rich for how much car you're actually getting these days, so I've not ever really gone looking.
Conclusion....Oh Dear. that comment rules out most of the maligned list either on cheap as chips grounds or complete lack of "fun" grounds ...Maybe a variant of the Hillman Imp could survive those comments or a Hillman Avenger Tiger.

and the final Zel clue for now which again strikes out most guesses

motoring very much reduced to its bare minimum of components and moving parts in the same vein as the philosophy of the 2CV (and sharing a number of technical similarities with the little blue thing in my garage). Also similar to the 2CV and it's German counterpart in having a stupidly long production run.
Conclusion....no idea really but permit me two guesses.

I am left with a "Metro" possibly of a more sporting variety, although I wouldn't describe the production run as stupidly long, (18 years 2 million units) has a slight design similarity to the Rialto..scallop down the side, bit of similar headlights front end, bog standard in simplicity did it have hydragas or whatever they call it suspension or just those rubber cones? Not confident on that one.

or a
Suzuki Jimny....Production started 1970, total units sold by 2018 2.8 million....reasonably stupidly long production run, bit of fun, 4 wheel drive would rule it out on the bare minimum of moving parts score...

Neil

PS then again 4 million and counting The Fiat Panda

The Panda is like a pair of jeans: a simple, practical article of clothing without pretense. I tried to give it the essential quality of a military design — in particular a helicopter: something light, rational, and optimized for a specific purpose.

—?Giorgetto Giugiaro

I don't think in the Mini and 500 it's necessarily the overall dimensions that are the issue, so much as the Go-Kart like driving position. I did just fine in my Suzuki Cappuccino and drove it all over the country and that isn't exactly large - though admittedly isn't trying to fit in four seats. Metro I also do just fine in.

Metro would be a good guess - but for the fact that I've owned one before (well, three actually, but only one which really sticks in my mind). Being honest I'd not really feel the need for a sporty one, they're not a car that needs big power, it's all about the ability they have to change direction by telepathy that simply means you don't need to slow down. Friend of mine around here has an MG variant, and to be honest aside from the rev counter I don't think it really offers much past my HLE spec one. Yes it's quicker in a straight line, but straight lines aren't what they're about. Can't see me getting one now though, not with good ones being well north of five grand these days.

Panda. Another good one, and yes one that I'd really like. Though again it's one I've direct experience with, albeit owned by my father rather than me - I drove it plenty. The last of the line cars with the 1000cc FIRE engine and fuel injection really go surprisingly well.

Both the Panda and Jimny make me ponder whether you can really say they're still in production...Yes the names still exist and conceptually the cars are catering to the same sort of market segment as they always were, but the cars themselves really aren't anything to do with the original motors which rolled off the production line. We're talking about a car here which survived virtually unchanged for over 25 years and somewhere in the region of 3 million units.

If I were looking at a small four wheel drive though by biggest problem with just about any of the options is that I've owned a Lada Niva. The 80s/90s SJ series Suzukis are a bit of a laugh and do surprisingly well off road, but they are bloody torture on road. The - what to my mind is "new" Jimny from around 2000 is bearable, but they really needed another 300 or 400cc as compared to my 1.7i Niva felt painfully sluggish. Nowhere near as comfortable either. That is one of the cars I've owned that I really do actively miss. The only real vices were sub 25mpg fuel economy and that it was bloody noisy at speed, otherwise it really was a great all rounder.

You have to remember this is me - a lot of cars on the "maligned" list which a lot of folks would consider driving to be a form of torture I'm quite likely to enjoy for what they are - see also having covered nearly 4000 miles by Invacar and enjoyed it. Possible exception being the FSO Polonez, which even I admit was bloody awful having driven a couple. Which is a shame, as I really like the styling of them, they have really comfy seats and a boot which can swallow small countries. If they'd just built it around the same cloned Fiat mechanicals as everyone else in the area was using rather than trying to make a bunch of bits themselves it probably would have been a better car for it. Which is a shame, as that's one I really wanted to like. The Ladas and Skodas I've had though were twenty times better cars in every way aside from stylistically.

I thought Metro Neil but discounted it as there's no real disinformation or myth about it - as far as I know... And no relation to the Invacar except being British...

Zel, you really have us guessing now... And scratching a lot of heads...

Robin, you may have it, having a CVT.... It'll flower in spring if it is My best guess will be an early Volvo 343 or a Volvo 66...

I did think DAF, and its volvo successors. but never a long production run, and prices rising? I would have thought very little market for them. Little Fiats on the other hand very over-priced for what they are, and big production runs. I edited in another guess of the FIAT Panda in its original form and design to my two guesses in my summary post of Zel's clues.

Neil

Would be a good guess, but sadly that's not one of the shared details...

A Volvo of any kind though really does need to happen at some point though. As a near life-long Saab fan, I really do want to sample one sometime - ideally an early 240.

A stab in the dark - an Allegro on hydragas ?

A car that so many people love to hate, that's not a bad shout. Have to admit that I was very impressed when I first drove one. Not maybe the most inspiring thing ever, but it was comfortable, quiet, roomy and handled well. Really did feel a competent car despite the rather odd looks. Likewise the Maxi, which really seemed to have TARDIS like qualities with how much space the designers managed to fit into the cabin.

I think keeping on top of the inevitable rust on one British car having to live outside at a time is enough though.

For a long production run, bare bones construction and rising prices - a Land Rover would fit the bill, but that somehow doesn't seem to be a Zel-mobile to me

I wouldn't mind a Series Landie in theory if we still lived out in the country. However around here it would make no sense, and I'd be petrified to park it anywhere as there would be a 50/50 chance every time I came back to the car park that it would have been nicked. Plus if I really decided that I wanted something I could occasionally take off road again I'd just go straight back to what I know there and find another Niva.

I can 'see' Zel in a Panda Neil so a good call

I do miss this one.

It was VERY green inside, seats, door cards, even the seat belts were green.

If I had another Panda though it would be a manual. CVT just wouldn't suit that engine - it's a classic Fiat in that it only really wakes up properly in the top third of the rev band, so I don't imagine would be much fun with a CVT.

[mickthemaverick]

Aah - a long and detailed examination of many of the previous suggestions there Zel, but no mention of the Trabant or Wartburg?

[CitroJim]

Trabant would be an adventure... I enjoyed a tour of Budapest from the passenger seat of a 2-stroke Trabant in 1994! Huge fun!

[bobins]

I had a go at a Trabant 601 Kübel once. I laughed. A lot.

[mickthemaverick]

Given that the Trabby is the new front runner I thought I'd chuck this in the ring because it is identical to the one I had in the 90's for transporting my R/C aircraft around. Great fun for me but my daughter wasn't so keen after I'd given it to her down in Exeter and it refused to start! Resulted in me having to go down with bare necessities and buy a socket set in Halfrauds. I fitted an electronic ignition to it and she had no more trouble but had fallen out of love so it had to go!

[CitroJim]

They were awesome little vehicles Mick... Shame they were equally well-loved by the old tin-worms

[NewcastleFalcon]

Apologies for slipping this vision of gorgeousness into the thread but it did come up on one of those "list" things here
..Car Designs that survived 20 years....not even a guess, more a tangent!

http://www.collectiblewheels.com/news/2 ... d-20-years

Neil