Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.
User avatar
Zelandeth
Donor 2024
Posts: 4982
Joined: 17 Nov 2014, 00:36
x 1494

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

TPA was out and about again today up in Olney. I usually try to avoid parking in spaces like this but I didn't really have any choice today as someone had stuck a market in the middle of the actual car park.

Image

As predicted, yes getting out was a pain in the proverbial backside. Especially lacking reversing lights.

Shortly after that I did the first fuel stop since the carb rebuild and since she's been allowed properly out of town a few times. The maths says 35MPG, which is much more in the ballpark of what I was hoping to see rather than the low to mid 20s I'd seen before. I think that this pretty much confirms that the carb wasn't happy before the second clean.

The new oil in the gearbox/diff has definitely reduced the overall volume of the whine a bit, so I guess the old oil had degraded quite a bit. I did check through what had been drained out and there was zero evidence of any glitter so I'm not worrying about it being a little whiny - I reckon they're just like that.

We then had a run up to Towcester, proper out of town run, which she handled like an absolute champ. I'm absolutely staggered by how well she cruises...She's smoother than a lot of "proper" cars I've had!

About 1/3 of the way home however things went a bit awry. Not badly, but inconveniently. Absolutely out of nowhere while happily cruising along (my pace being dictated by the traffic in front) there was a godawful bang and I suddenly had no drive. Once I'd experimentally revved the engine a couple of times (you honestly can't hear it below about 55) to confirm that the bowels of the engine hadn't just deposited themselves all over the A5 I figured I'd either snapped or thrown the CVT belt. Turns out that a Model 70 without the drag from the CVT will roll for MILES! I must have gone the best part of 3/4 a mile before I got to the gateway I was planning to pull into and I'd lost about 10mph.

So, convenient gateway which let met get a reasonable distance out of traffic.

Image

Shame the cafe wasn't open as actually just parking up in the car park would have been preferable...plus I was thirsty so being able to get a drink would have been nice.

A quick check under the engine cover confirmed a snapped CVT belt. Half hour job to change but I didn't have either a belt nor the tools to change it on me. Nor did I have a clear enough idea in my head of where what I would need brought to me was in the garage to send someone out with it. Plus I didn't particularly want to be twirling spanners at the side of the A5 in rush hour. Time to call for recovery. Last time I called a breakdown service was in 2006 so I've not had a bad run I reckon.

My view for the next couple of hours.

Image

While a bit boring, I couldn't really complain. Breeze was running straight through the car so it was a pleasant temperature, I had a comfy seat, and there was a surprisingly large amount of interesting traffic passing by. Given I was on my own and in a (relatively) safe location I knew I wasn't going to be a priority call...despite the initially wildly optimistic estimates given. Think it was roughly two hours before help arrived which was about what I was expecting.

Image

Then a quick ride on the truck (seriously, about fifteen minutes!)...

Image

Had us back home.

Image

Really surprised at how well that truck rode, though the robotised manual gearbox would have driven me spare.

We were dropped off up the hill from our driveway and I was able to just roll down the hill and onto the drive and push the car back into the safety of the garage.

Image

Didn't take five minutes to retrieve the belt and pretty much confirm my suspicions. I reckon it was a failure waiting to happen down to a degraded old belt. No obvious fraying or anything, it's just gone suddenly at one point when the braiding has given way (the surface damage is just from where it was sitting against the still rotating pulleys I think).

Image

Image

I know that the belts I've used along with a lot of my spares showed evidence of having spent a long time stored in very poor conditions and I reckon that's taken its toll. We've got some NOS belts at a friend's place which have been stored better, so getting one of those fitted will be step one and should get us rolling again.

Ancient belts however I reckon are likely to be a recurring headache, especially if I'm going to be using the car regularly...and it's something I *definitely* don't want to have to worry about if I wind up doing an epic round-country trip at some point in the next year or two. As such I want to see if a modern alternative will work. The nearest equivalent we believe is a Dayco HP2020, which is slightly longer but has a very similar profile...so I've got one ordered on the way to experiment with. It's coming from Rock Auto in the US as even with shipping it was half the price of one ordered from in the UK it turned out.

So don't think her arriving home on the back of a flatbed is going to result in a huge spell in the garage, she should be back up and running by the weekend. Just one of those things which happens with old cars sometimes.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
User avatar
Zelandeth
Donor 2024
Posts: 4982
Joined: 17 Nov 2014, 00:36
x 1494

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

A friend very kindly dropped a replacement NOS drive belt off for me this morning. This is in far, far better shape than any of the half dozen or so I originally got with the first Invacar - all but a couple of which were binned long ago as they were plainly too far gone. This one looks in fine shape though.

Image

Image

The details for those interested.

Image

That part number appears to be completely obsolete judging from a Google search. General theory is that these were custom made for the Invacar, probably bought in sufficient numbers by the DHSS back in the day that it wasn't prohibitively expensive per item cost wise to do that.

This belt is 1 1/4" wide at the widest point, so fractionally wider than the HP2020. We'll see if that has any noticeable impact when it arrives.

Changing the CVT belt on one of these cars is pretty straightforward. Only tools you need are two 17mm spanners. The manual states that you need to remove one of the pulleys from the gearbox/chaincase, however if you back the tensioner all the way off there's *just* enough slack to get the belt to walk its way on without having to dismantle anything.

Image

The belt tension isn't actually set while paying any attention to the actual tension. The manual states that the correct belt tension is obtained with the pulley centres 10.25" apart.

Image

I did actually get it closer than it looks there, holding the tape measure and the camera at the same time was tricky.

Now having a new belt in good order in front of me to compare to I was able to take a closer look at the two remaining spares I had in the garage and ascertain that they are indeed fit for nothing aside from a trip into the bin.

Image

Image

Aside from having perished just as badly as the one which just went pop they're worn down to barely 1" in width. The better of the two will be held on to now purely as a "limp my way home" backup, but as soon as I've got a decent spare in hand it will join the first one in the bin.

It will obviously take a bit of time for the new belt to bed in but initial signs on the brief test drive round the block showed everything working as it should. Haven't been above 30mph yet but I've no reason to expect any issues.

The one really noticeable thing that has changed however is that the horrible what I'd always assumed was clutch judder appears to have gone. That's been an issue I've had since the first time KPL moved on my driveway under her own power so has been with me for a while! If a new belt has sorted it I'll be very happy as that's always been really annoying.

In preparation for some remedial work to the paintwork I'm starting to tidy a few things up. While I'd got a decent finish on the engine cover the actual surface was badly pitted in a load of places.

Image

To remedy this I've been going over the area with some self setting filler, once the panel is given a going over to sand that down it should look a lot better with fresh paint applied afterwards.

Image

Looks a bit ridiculous in the meantime, but that's the way with cosmetics isn't it? Things have to get worse before you can improve on them. Will be doing this a panel at a time to keep things manageable.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
User avatar
Zelandeth
Donor 2024
Posts: 4982
Joined: 17 Nov 2014, 00:36
x 1494

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

Following the replacement of the belt, TPA was out and about today to meet up with a couple of friends.

You know seeing one Invacar is a rare enough sight these days...

Image

Image

Image

These other two are just in the process of being recommissiined and should be back on the road soon.

The new belt seems to be working well. The only issue to surface was the cooling fan air intake grill making another bid for freedom.

Image

As this finding its way into the cooling fan would have been A Bad Thing (tm) it was removed and stowed under the seat for the trip home. As this is the third or fourth time it has come loose I'm going to improve on the standard fixings. Given it's just hooked over the ends of four screws that won't be hard. Some penny washers and a few bolts will do the job.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 27157
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 14:30
x 5255

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Unread post by myglaren »

Needs more glue :)
User avatar
white exec
Posts: 7445
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
x 1758

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Unread post by white exec »

Do recall that some of these old and basic gearboxes and diffs could be significant quietened by adding gearbox Molyslip. Not something I'd do in a modern synchromesh/fine tolerance 'box, but could work here. Easy enough to try.
Chris
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 27157
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 14:30
x 5255

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Unread post by myglaren »

I used to stick Molyslip, Molyslip G and STP into everything. No idea if it did any good. At least it didn't do any harm (probably).
User avatar
bobins
(Donor 2025)
Posts: 6400
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
x 3304

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Unread post by bobins »

What's the outside length of the belt in inches ?
User avatar
Zelandeth
Donor 2024
Posts: 4982
Joined: 17 Nov 2014, 00:36
x 1494

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

bobins wrote: 24 Aug 2020, 10:32 What's the outside length of the belt in inches ?
I'll grab the old one and measure it when I next get a chance.

-- -- --

So yesterday despite the car running well we had one small issue in that the grill on the engine cooling air intake fell off. Again.

Image

Given that's the only thing stopping people from sticking their fingers in here, this was something I considered sorting to be a high priority.

Image

Originally it was held in simply by the ends of four small stubby self tapping screws poking through the mesh.

Image

Given this is the third or fourth time it's done this I figured it was time to improve on this arrangement

Image

Problem solved and everything back together.

Image

You can see the edge of the washers in person if you look closely so I'll want to go back to trim those at some point. That's a pretty low priority though. At least the grill isn't going to try to get itself ingested by the cooling fan again now the grill is properly secured.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
Hell Razor5543
Donor 2023
Posts: 14073
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
x 3178

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Hell Razor5543 »

I wonder if something like these might be useful to hold that grill more securely?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50Pcs-Safety ... SwUOReBr1h

You would want to find something with round holes as opposed to oval ones, but you can get the idea.
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
ex C5 2.2HDi VTX+

Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
User avatar
Zelandeth
Donor 2024
Posts: 4982
Joined: 17 Nov 2014, 00:36
x 1494

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

Not a bad thought, though to be honest it will take five minutes to just chop a bit of the washers out next time I've got the grinder out for something. It's not as though it's a part which will be fitted/removed on a regular basis. It's not going anywhere now as the washer securing it is far bigger than the holes in the mesh.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 26252
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 7084

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Unread post by NewcastleFalcon »

Zelandeth wrote: 25 Aug 2020, 14:01 Not a bad thought, et cetera.
...Number noticing moment

That was the 4,000 the post on your blog Zel, and this is the 4000 th reply.

Here's something random to mark the occasion without actually having any relevance to the posting milestone.

Not yours but a variation on a theme.....I like the notice so put that in as well.

Image

Image

Regards Neil
Only One AA Box left
687 Trinity, Jersey
User avatar
Zelandeth
Donor 2024
Posts: 4982
Joined: 17 Nov 2014, 00:36
x 1494

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

That car I *believe* is now in preservation. Not sure whether it's being restored, but it's definitely in the hands of an individual rather than a scrap yard at least.

-- -- --
A package arrived from the US this morning.

Image

This was ordered a full 24 hours later than the oil pressure switch sitting next to the belt, which was coming from less than 100 miles away - they arrived within a couple of hours of each other. This is the second time I've ordered stuff from them and have had things arrive seemingly unfeasibly quickly.

The arrival of this belt meant that I could finally get some actual measurements relative to the original Invacar belts, which I'd been wanting to for a while. I'd hard a few mentions of the HP2020 being slightly longer so wanted to see how how much longer it was and whether it would be possible to take up the additional slack with the tension adjustment.

First up, an original Dayco 43-5639. This is the now obsolete belt which was originally fitted.

Image

Image

So let's compare that to the Dayco HP2020 which we've been advised is the closest current equivalent.

Image

Image

Unless I'm seeing things, those belts look to be as close to the same length as to be identical according to this tape measure.

How about width. I measured the new belt I fitted a couple of days ago at 1 1/4" wide. How does that compare?

Image

Image

So it's fractionally narrower, but not by much at all. The wear limit width wise according to the manual is 28mm, so we're comfortably within that.

So not a problem it looks like. The slightly narrower starting width means we might not get quite as much life out of the belt, though at this point we're still trying to figure out what normal belt life actually is. To be honest if it lasts a year of normal use and is an annual service item...it's a £30 current production part. I can deal with that.

Of course this is theory at this point...while my measurements show that the HP2020 is all but identical to the NOS Invacar CVT belts, it may well behave quite differently in the real world. My plan at this point is to get the HP2020 installed at some point shortly so I can get some real world testing done. It looks really promising though. The reports of the HP2020 being notably longer appear to be false.

I'll also try to get this oil pressure switch installed on the Jag ASAP.

Image

The original one randomly decided to quit working a couple of weeks ago. That's a warning light that I'm not willing to do without!
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
User avatar
daviemck2006
Donor 2024
Posts: 5009
Joined: 04 Dec 2010, 19:45
x 492

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Unread post by daviemck2006 »

I see elsewhere that your Xantia has found it's way back to citrojimtowers where the esteemed citrojim has reopened his activa repairs. You can take the activa away from the man, but can't take the activa out of the man :-D :lol: :lol:
Skoda Karoq 1.6tdi 2018
Citroen dispatch 2014
In the family
Seat Leon 1.5tsi tourer 2019 daughter 1
C1 vtr+ 2010 daughter 2
User avatar
bobins
(Donor 2025)
Posts: 6400
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
x 3304

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Unread post by bobins »

Dayco seem to be one of the few user friendly belt manufacturers that allow a look-up based on cvt belt size !
The HP2020 does seem to be a very good match, but the XTX2244 seems to be bang-on, though it's a double cog variant so I don't know how that would work on your Invacar.
Dayco CVT belts - Dayco, fair use
Dayco CVT belts - Dayco, fair use
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 52784
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 7241

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Unread post by CitroJim »

daviemck2006 wrote: 26 Aug 2020, 16:43 I see elsewhere that your Xantia has found it's way back to citrojimtowers where the esteemed citrojim has reopened his activa repairs. You can take the activa away from the man, but can't take the activa out of the man :-D :lol: :lol:
🤣🤣 It is indeed on my driveway receiving lots of TLC. I shall write about it in my blog soon 😉
Attachments
Zel's Activa on my drive waiting scanners...
Zel's Activa on my drive waiting scanners...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...