Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog (Xantia, 107 and "others")

Post by Zelandeth »

Well hopefully you'll have a chance Jim given I was the winning bidder. Just waiting for the seller to get in touch to let me know when we can pick it up. Hoping for tomorrow obviously!

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog (Xantia, 107 and "others")

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Zel, well won =D> :-D

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog (Xantia, 107 and "others")

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Had a rare bit of spare time today when it wasn't tipping it down to investigate the horrible noise the Xantia is making.

Shifting the ECU box meant I could just get the universal joint driver from my socket set in to release the tensioner and then remove the belt. Well, until it got wedged anyway. Ten minutes of arguing with it and I then managed to get it out from the bottom.

Hydraulic pump feels fine, alternator feels okay, tensioners both silky smooth, A/C compresser on the other hands making horrible scrapy noises and surrounded by a fine layer of metal filings. It's nice to be right sometimes. Access from in the wheel arch is actually a lot better than I expected...is it possible to replace the pully/bearing assembly with the compressor in situ?

In the meantime, I'll look up the length of belt needed for the a/c deletion to get the car back on the road until I can get it fully sorted.

I did note that the belt was quite perished on the grooves, it's dated week 22 2013 which is about when the timing belt was done if I remember right (makes sense I guess), which makes me wonder if that may be starting to show its age too...might pull the cover off and take a peek at it. If it needs doing I may as well do it while I've got things in bits anyway...I've got everything here to do it after all.

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog (Xantia, 107 and "others")

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Zelandeth wrote:is it possible to replace the pully/bearing assembly with the compressor in situ?

Yes it is but you need a special puller for the job Zel... One that looks like a flywheel puller used on small motorcycle mags back in the 60s..

I once made one up on the lathe...

I didn't quite make the threads deep enough so it worked once and then stripped...

It's not a standard size of puller and genuine ones are like rocking horse manure and expensive...

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog (Xantia, 107 and "others")

Post by Zelandeth »

Stand by, Jim...

Photos will follow tomorrow but the organ is home...nearly killed me and.my other half, but it's home!

Decoding the serial no seemed to suggested a 1969 build date...impressive to own something that saw the moon landing...
Last edited by Zelandeth on 11 Jan 2016, 19:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog (Xantia, 107 and "others")

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Zelandeth wrote:Stand by, Jim...

Photos will follow tomorrow but the organ is home...nearly killed me and.my other half, but it's home!
Can't wait Zel, excellent :D

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog (Xantia, 107 and "others")

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Well gave the thing a reasonably thorough clean today (including removing the mouse's food store from the one corner), did some electrical sanity checks before showing it power and then gave it a test run.

Results were basically exactly what I expected from something of this vintage which has been in storage for a while. Generally OK, but in need of a bit of fettling. There's a continual buzz on the audio at what sounds to be around 50Hz, and the volume varies when the Leslie speaker's rotation motor is turned on/off so I suspect the voltage is wandering. PSU will be wanting some caps changed then methinks. The 16' range for the bass pedals doesn't seem to do anything, that could be as simple as a duff switch contact or could mean that one of the outputs from the tone generator is missing. Other than that problems seem to be limited to some dirty contacts on the drawbars which is to be expected. Thankfully all the keys work and don't seem to be sticky - as I was dreading the idea of having to dismantle and service that. Likewise, the tone generator seems to be working OK.

There's a bit of water damage to the bottom of the cabinet on the one corner from the recent torrential rain where it got into the lockup, but nothing that can't be repaired.

Looking at the various date coded components tends to suggest that this is actually a 1968 model rather than 1969 one, as all the components seem to be late 67 to early 68. This model was only launched in 1968, so quite an early one.

Anyway...here's what you want, Jim!

Image

Image

No chipped keys, score!

Image

Mmm...spaghetti...Crossing my fingers that these wires are socketed where they go into at least the manual or tone generator...

Image

Tagstrips...lots of tagstrips...

Image

...and what is probably the most elaborate synchronous motor ever invented.

Should be a fun toy.

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog (Xantia, 107 and "others")

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Wow! I'm in love 8-) :P :mrgreen:

And it has a Leslie speaker too... I take it that's the purpose of the synchronous motor? Leslies are just bloody wonderful...

You'll be right about the PSU needing some caps now and in one picture I spot an infamous Hunt's capacitor. (The brown Bakelite looking one in the third picture). They are shockers for going leaky and account for a majority of faults in vintage wirelesses...

You sure it's 50Hz hum? If it's PSU problems then often it's 100Hz assuming the PSUs have bridge rectifiers or full-wave rectification. 50Hz hum is often local pick-up or earth loops... I have a problem with 50Hz pickup on some old wirelesses and I've traced it to CFLs (Compact Fluorescent Lamps)....

My only slight disappointment is that it appears to have no valves in it, not even in the PA stage :(

Do you have any circuit diagrams of it yet as I'm most interested to see actually what devices are in the PA stage. I guess something like OC28s or NKT404s perhaps...

Any help you want refurbishing it just shout ;)

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog (Xantia, 107 and "others")

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It's stopped humming now, and the drawbars are getting better...so a lot will just be use.

The syncro motor pictured is the one that runs the tone generator, I think the one driving the Leslie is just a normal shaded pole motor.

No valves sadly, this was one of the first fully transistorised versions. Haven't rummaged for schematics yet, but will provide a link when I do. The circuit will be pretty simple really, just repeated a whole heap of times for each note. Reverb is provided by a spring reverb unit which seems to be working fine.

Earlier, valve driven models sadly change hands for mega money even when in shocking states so were totally out of my reach. Practical considerations came into it as well - they're physically bigger and a lot heavier (this is just about a two man shuffle for ten feet, rest, repeat sort of heavy as it is). It still sounds epic, even despite the lack of valves...though does of course lack a drive control...may throw something togeher though at a later date, shame not to be able to get that nice gravelly overdrive you need for things like Steppenwolf...

Money wise this type are cheap for what you get. The T series usually change hands for £50-100 unless they have really desirable accessories (i.e. the big external Leslies), in which case the price will disappear into orbit. This cost me £100, which was a bit on the high side, but I was willing to spend a bit more as it was only an hour away. Beware the L series organs while visually near identical, don't have the built in Leslie.

Yes you can get a secondhand modern keyboard for a hundred quid that will do far more, but I guarantee you that it won't sound half as good nor have such presence in a room...look at it and tell me that's not a conversation starter.

PSU is buried under the Leslie so will need to get that out first.

...Thing needs breaking down into its main parts as long term it needs to go upstairs...and it's just too heavy in one lump!

Luckily I've got a love of all things electronic and ancient and restore radios and TVs as well, so hoping to be able to find my way around. You're more than welcome to come have a nosey though Jim, and when I get properly stuck in an extra pair of hands and eyeballs may prove handy. You still need to properly experience the Saab as well sometime...which reminds me I've been daily forgetting to order it plugs, cap and rotor arm for about three months now....
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog (Xantia, 107 and "others")

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Zelandeth wrote:You're more than welcome to come have a nosey though Jim, and when I get properly stuck in an extra pair of hands and eyeballs may prove handy. You still need to properly experience the Saab as well sometime...
Zel, you're definitely on :D We must get something arranged...

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog (Xantia, 107 and "others")

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Here you go Jim, Hammond T Series schematics.

Bit of light reading for you.

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog (Xantia, 107 and "others")

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Brilliant Zel, I'll enjoy those immensely :D

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog (Xantia, 107 and "others")

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Went to fit the new drive belt to the Xantia today, to find that it's not the one for a non A/C car, which I specifically asked for. Confusion apparently due to A/C being standard on the S2 car. I will need a new belt anyway when it's reinstated so not bothering with returns etc. Will see if Halfrauds have one tomorrow as I can't be bothered waiting another few days for something as silly as a belt.

Poked around a bit more with the organ today and am glad to report that it's bit by bit coming back to life. All background hum has vanished now, all preset tabs are working, the one sticky key has stopped sticking and the tone generator has become almost physically silent in operation now the oil has time to soak into all the bearings. Still the occasional pop and crackle but getting less by the minute it seems.

Still planning to pull the Leslie unit out as soon as I get a chance so I can check the caps in the PSU, and get a proper look at the output amp and de-dust both of the above. ...and like you Jim I'm curious to see what transistors have been used. 34W of output power available apparently (it sounds it too) so must be something moderately substantial! Really surprised that despite its initial crankiness that the PSU seems happy enough now. Metering several lines where test points are accessible (with my AVO 8 of course) shows everything is pretty much spot on and there's no appreciable ripple visible on the scope. Not bad for 48 year old caps. Jim, the ones you see around the back of the manuals which are masquerading as Hunts Mouldseals are actually not, and are generally very stable. In post 64 organs where they stopped using wax paper caps, other than the odd cooked electrolytic in the power supply they apparently rarely give trouble. If only that were true in radios and TVs of the same vintage!

Did discover that the early 80s rhythm accompaniment box we got with it (Roland PB300 from memory) goes for decent money on eBay...like more than I paid for the organ...so if I decide I don't need that (can't see it being able to do anything my laptop, iPod and the rhythm section on the other 80s keyboard I have can't), may stick that on there and maybe even make some money back!

Some of the tabs (switches) were suffering from worn away lettering, which given I'm still very much learning my way around was a bit of a pain. The embossing is still there but the print gone. My interrim solution has been to cover the area with dry-erase ink from a whiteboard marker then to rub it off when dry. In all but one case the ink stayed put in the embossing so they are now readable again - and even I have enough brain to be able to remember that the one unlabelled one is the volume soft tab. Sure there's a more elegant long term solution but that felt like a good bit of McGuyvering when I had the idea.

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog (Xantia, 107 and "others")

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The belt will be a special Zel and you may have to measure the length needed with a bit of string. Halfords should be able to supply as they normally have a fair selection, alternatively, easily got on the Internet...

I've seen no end of times when electronic stuff out of use for years as fully recovered - all down to electrolytics reforming themselves... That's if they don't go open or short first!

Nice result with the Rythm unit!

I did look at the PA circuit but did not recognise the transistor types immediately... A bit of googling is needed..

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog (Xantia, 107 and "others")

Post by lexi »

Those Organs are interesting. Steve Winwood is a Hammond man isn't he? I go back to many Prog Rock groups using them.
Stone The Crows, Atomic Rooster etc, did they not use The Leslie? Procol Harem, Deep Purple, Argent et all. Peter Hammil and Van Der Graf Generator?.....was that Roland or Leslie?