Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 52791
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 7242

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Pug 107, Saab 900, Lada Riva, Skoda Estelle & Sinclair C5

Unread post by CitroJim »

Zelandeth wrote: 13 Nov 2017, 19:28 Oh I'm sure there will be plenty left to do! I'd just like to hand the car over in the best order I can.


Exactly my policy with the Activa... There will be plenty, especially cosmetic, to do but in the main the important stuff will be good...

Following this with interest Zel, I love puzzles like this cooling one ;)
Jim

Runner, cyclist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
User avatar
Zelandeth
Donor 2024
Posts: 4982
Joined: 17 Nov 2014, 00:36
x 1494

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Pug 107, Saab 900, Lada Riva, Skoda Estelle & Sinclair C5

Unread post by Zelandeth »

Well as predicted that ended up being a bit more of a rigmarole than I'd hoped!

Finding the original water pump took all of 30 seconds as it was exactly where I thought it was. Here's the difference between the aftermarket one which came with my first Estelle (fitted in the photo) and the original.
IMG_20171114_140439.jpg
The impeller on the original is about twice the depth of that on the one currently on the car, though the pitch is slightly different - and it never caused me any issues on the previous car - just having eliminated the original water pump as the cause of the problems, I would have preferred to have the original put back. It looks better.

First thing I did of course was to pull what on any normal front engined car would be the bottom radiator hose (the one to the left of the water pump). Glad to report that the coolant that emerged was crystal clear blue coolant without any sediment, contamination etc. Far cry from what I drained out of the Saab when I first got it (which looked like slightly watered down red oxide primer). Likewise when I flushed everything through there was no signs of any gunk to emerge from the system. I think the flow is decent enough given the head you're pushing against to flow through the radiator and heater matrix and the length of the pipework involved. Even when I reverse flushed it there was absolutely no signs of any crud emerging from the system - tending to suggest I'd done a decent job of it last time.

Next up, water pump swap...

I've discovered however that after a couple of years a fine smear of blue gasket sealant apparently can form a ridiculously strong bond! The nuts came off perfectly, but the pump is well and truly stuck to the housing. After arguing with it for half an hour I decided to just leave that well alone for now and get on with what I set out to do.

...At which point the hose clip immediately to the right of the water pump decided it had had enough of life and decided to fall to bits. Cue expletives. If you hear Estelle owners talking about "that pipe" it is usually referring to that tiny little bridge between the water pump and the ridged line that disappears off around the head, by the tappet cover to the heater hoses. Simple reason? Because it's an absolute swine to remove or fit unless you want to totally disconnect all the heater hoses at the other end and detach the aforementioned hard coolant line. Even then it's a royal faff as the pipe will only fit between the cylinder head and the distributor if you've got the hose clip at *exactly* the right angle. I also remembered from last time I did this (when I replaced that bit of hose and the bypass pipe) that everything seemed very well stuck to the solid coolant lines, and between that and the heater hoses being in good condition, I'd decided to leave that well alone.

The upshot of this was that I spent about 20 minutes getting a new hose clip onto that tiny bit of pipe and reattaching it. I *still* dislike that two inch long bit of pipe as much as I did when I encountered it on my first Estelle.

Anyhow, having sorted that nonsense out, back onto doing what I actually set out to in the first place. Thankfully I knew that the last person to have the stat housing apart was me, and sure enough it came apart without any protest. The stat which came out isn't the worst looking one I've seen by a long shot, though being Mahle branded has obviously been changed at some point.
IMG_20171114_155701.jpg
It did however reveal one glitch with my new one - that it hadn't come with a paper gasket. I did my best to salvage this from the one on the car and got *most* of it off intact...but for now just had to be a bit more generous with the sealant than I normally would like. I'll get a new gasket ordered in due course (they're all of £1.69) so that can be tidied up to my satisfaction.

Then I just had to refill the system, bleed it...and wait for the thing to warm up. There's 11 litres of coolant in this system...It takes *forever* to fully heat up when all you can do is sit there running the engine at a fast idle! While I was waiting, I put the air cleaner back together and snapped a photo of the data card so Jim can save it for future reference. These were the days, when the manufacturer provided this all for you in one place actually on the car!
IMG_20171114_155114.jpg
If in future you wish to check such things, the Crypton engine analyser I've got here has the ability to read the dwell angle with the engine running and has a decent timing light attached that knocks the socks off the one I bought a few years back.

Note the front tyre pressures. Seriously...Don't try putting any more in there unless you want to be bouncing around the road like a circus clown car...The garage stuck 35psi in when they put the tyres on despite my specific instructions, and the effect on the handling was...shall we just call it "somewhat alarming" as I discovered when I was halfway around the Mounthooly Roundabout back in Aberdeen on the slightly damp road on the way back from having the tyres fitted. That wonderful moment when you turn the steering wheel yet it has absolutely no effect on the direction of travel whatsoever...Returning the pressures to what they should be both stopped the comedy bouncing and restored grip levels to where they should be.

At this point I think I'm at the point where I just need to call Two Wrestlers up and get it booked in for a test and cross my fingers that it behaves on the way over there! If it doesn't, I think we need to put our heads together and see what theories we can come up with Jim!

The only one which worries me is the possibility of a slipped cylinder liner (played that game on enough Gardners...) which would give similar symptoms I guess to a head gasket issue, though that's really unusual unless they've been disturbed while the head was off - and I was very careful not to rotate the engine while the head was off for that very reason. Not unfixable, but a royal pain if it were the case, however unlikely it may be.

She behaved perfectly this evening though, despite sitting for a good 45 minutes at 2500rpm...so fingers crossed! Just had kind of hoped to see an obviously collapsed or clogged thermostat!

Watch this space I guess...

Also need to snap a photo tomorrow to a product that I've for the first time found in this country, but saves a lot of time when trying to clean up oxidisation etc from metal hose connection stubs. One of those things I first came across in the US that's in every plumber/HVAC engineers toolbox, but haven't until last week ever found over here.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 52791
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 7242

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Pug 107, Saab 900, Lada Riva, Skoda Estelle & Sinclair C5

Unread post by CitroJim »

Good work Zel :)

That little hose reminds me of the infernal little 'bypass' hose on the BMC A-Series engines... That was a mean little devil...

Fingers crossed all will be OK... If not we have an interesting puzzle!!

I reckon we're both there for appointments with the Two Wrestlers... Make it a dual one perhaps? Book both in together maybe?
Jim

Runner, cyclist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
User avatar
Zelandeth
Donor 2024
Posts: 4982
Joined: 17 Nov 2014, 00:36
x 1494

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Pug 107, Saab 900, Lada Riva, Skoda Estelle & Sinclair C5

Unread post by Zelandeth »

I'll let you know when they've got space Jim and we'll figure out which arrangement will work best. Quite possibly given the usually limited space there, drop one car off after the other and come back with the second one. We'll make it work.

Don't think I've come across the bit of pipework you refer to on the A Series, though thinking about it I never had to touch the cooling system on either of my Metros save for changing the coolant at service time...Well, unless you count slicing my knuckles to ribbons on the radiator fins whenever doing anything in the vague vicinity of the distributor anyway.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 52791
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 7242

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Pug 107, Saab 900, Lada Riva, Skoda Estelle & Sinclair C5

Unread post by CitroJim »

Great to see you this afternoon Zel :) Really perked me up
Zelandeth wrote: 15 Nov 2017, 13:31 Don't think I've come across the bit of pipework you refer to on the A Series


I think it was one of the design improvements on the A+ as fitted to the Metro do do away with it... On the earlier A series it was a little hose about an inch and a half long that went from the underside of the thermostat housing on the head to the block... It was almost invisible, almost inaccessible and almost impossible to compress the standard one enough to get it on its spigots...

Aftermarket replacements were a mite easier to install as they were of a concertina design and could be squashed down to a small size but even then they were a trial...

It was a design aspect well worthy of Citroen :lol:
Jim

Runner, cyclist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
User avatar
Zelandeth
Donor 2024
Posts: 4982
Joined: 17 Nov 2014, 00:36
x 1494

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Pug 107, Saab 900, Lada Riva, Skoda Estelle & Sinclair C5

Unread post by Zelandeth »

Ah ha! That would be why I don't recall it, have never really done any work on an original A series, only the A+.

Sounds very similar to that one on the Skoda, albeit less visible. Though sometimes I've found that being able to see what you're doing is less help than you'd think! ...see also: it taking me 20+ minutes to get a new hose clip on there yesterday.

Edit: Just given the Skoda a quick once-over again ready for tomorrow morning. Discovered one thing that I'll need to dash out for this evening, the nearside windscreen wiper has decided to fall to bits. Will get a new set of blades and fit it later this evening. Lights and everything have all been checked out. Hopefully will still be fine when I get to the test. Nearside number plate light, I'm looking at you.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
User avatar
bobins
(Donor 2025)
Posts: 6403
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
x 3305

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Pug 107, Saab 900, Lada Riva, Skoda Estelle & Sinclair C5

Unread post by bobins »

CitroJim wrote: 15 Nov 2017, 16:28
On the earlier A series it was a little hose about an inch and a half long that went from the underside of the thermostat housing on the head to the block... It was almost invisible, almost inaccessible and almost impossible to compress the standard one enough to get it on its spigots...

Aftermarket replacements were a mite easier to install as they were of a concertina design and could be squashed down to a small size but even then they were a trial...


I remember those well Jim. Something along the lines of "How the flipping 'ell am I supposed to fit that in there ?" :-D
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 52791
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 7242

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Pug 107, Saab 900, Lada Riva, Skoda Estelle & Sinclair C5

Unread post by CitroJim »

bobins wrote: 15 Nov 2017, 19:50
CitroJim wrote: 15 Nov 2017, 16:28
On the earlier A series it was a little hose about an inch and a half long that went from the underside of the thermostat housing on the head to the block... It was almost invisible, almost inaccessible and almost impossible to compress the standard one enough to get it on its spigots...

Aftermarket replacements were a mite easier to install as they were of a concertina design and could be squashed down to a small size but even then they were a trial...


I remember those well Jim. Something along the lines of "How the flipping 'ell am I supposed to fit that in there ?" :-D


Yes! Shades of a Xantia heater matrix :lol: Replacing both can be considered character-forming :twisted:
Jim

Runner, cyclist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
User avatar
Zelandeth
Donor 2024
Posts: 4982
Joined: 17 Nov 2014, 00:36
x 1494

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Pug 107, Saab 900, Lada Riva, Skoda Estelle & Sinclair C5

Unread post by Zelandeth »

Two small patches of welding needed on the Skoda's inner offside sill. Could be worse.

Have booked it in to be sorted on Tuesday. So nothing catastrophic at least!

Unsurprisingly given it's been under Jim's care, a clean pass for the Activa!
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
Gibbo2286
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 7849
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
x 2778

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Pug 107, Saab 900, Lada Riva, Skoda Estelle & Sinclair C5

Unread post by Gibbo2286 »

I remember well the by-pass hose on the A series, fairly easy to do on the Morris Minor and Austin A35 but on the Mini it could be a b. nightmare. :(

On your water pump Zel the bit you change is only half of the part, the other half is the hole it fits in, if your impellor is smaller then the pump can't work as efficiently, it might just slosh the water about instead of pumping it.
Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new. (Albert Einstein)
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 52791
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 7242

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Pug 107, Saab 900, Lada Riva, Skoda Estelle & Sinclair C5

Unread post by CitroJim »

Zelandeth wrote: 16 Nov 2017, 11:59 Two small patches of welding needed on the Skoda's inner offside sill. Could be worse.
That's not bad at all :)
Zelandeth wrote: 16 Nov 2017, 11:59 Unsurprisingly given it's been under Jim's care, a clean pass for the Activa!


Excellent :) Extremely pleased about that...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
User avatar
Michel
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2357
Joined: 29 May 2017, 13:50
x 705

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Pug 107, Saab 900, Lada Riva, Skoda Estelle & Sinclair C5

Unread post by Michel »

Gibbo2286 wrote: 16 Nov 2017, 13:51
On your water pump Zel the bit you change is only half of the part, the other half is the hole it fits in, if your impellor is smaller then the pump can't work as efficiently, it might just slosh the water about instead of pumping it.
Eric solves the frustrations of many a rear-engined Skoda owner (myself included) in one post...
User avatar
Zelandeth
Donor 2024
Posts: 4982
Joined: 17 Nov 2014, 00:36
x 1494

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Pug 107, Saab 900, Lada Riva, & Sinclair C5

Unread post by Zelandeth »

It's a good theory on the water pump impeller being too small - sadly I know it works just fine (had it on another engine for several thousand miles - that one had been tweaked as well so was working rather harder than this one). The overheating problem isn't anything to do with the pump I'm pretty certain.

The Skoda performed okay on the way over to the MOT station this morning, though did make me look a bit of an idiot by playing games with the clutch as I was reversing out of the garage. Initial thought was that the recently replaced slave cylinder was playing up, as it was behaving exactly the same as when that failed. A bit of investigation later revealed that nope...that area is bone dry. What instead appears to have happened is that one of the hard lines has rubbed through. Of course in about the least accessible spot on the entire car. Murphy's Law and all that. Car wanting to have the last laugh and all that apparently! So the trip back to the garage to get the welding will be done using the bare minimum of clutch, always fun.

Not too much of a drama though in the grand scheme of things, albeit somewhat annoying.

As you may already have seen in Jim's Blog though - as the Skoda wandered off to pastures new (albeit nearby), his Activa made a move as well and is now parked on my driveway.
IMG_20171116_122055_scaled.jpg
Will hopefully be on the road properly again in a few days once the DVLA have got their act together and sorted out the paperwork. I'm really not too worried about having to wait a bit though to be honest, we're helping out at a wedding this weekend, so it will likely be well into next week before I really have a chance to think about it. I'll then make the executive decision about whether I want to wait till the start of the month for the tax, or whether impatience wins!
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 52791
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 7242

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Pug 107, Saab 900, Lada Riva, & Sinclair C5

Unread post by CitroJim »

Zel, she's looking very at home on your driveway :D

I'll be on to the DVLA shortly and fingers crossed we can get the paperwork sorted...

But will you be able to wait until the end of the month though ;) I know I couldn't...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
User avatar
Michel
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2357
Joined: 29 May 2017, 13:50
x 705

Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Pug 107, Saab 900, Lada Riva, & Sinclair C5

Unread post by Michel »

Surely you do all the paperwork online? It's only 5 mins or be job and all is registered instantly. No wondering if the DVLA have lost it. Sam for tax.