1.9td questions

[Stickyfinger]

This has been a fun read....thanks to you for your postings.

[CitroJim]

This has been a fun read....thanks to you for your postings.

Absolutely, it's an excellent thread and worthy of going into the blogs section

[xsaras4ever]

Hello again and thanks to you all for your kind comments.

We have news.

We started to use the van after the failed (but good for 2 months Control Technique).

1000km in the first 4 days (helping daughter to move house)

Then 400km collecting broken son's car on a trailer.

Then a 800km round trip to Chartres to buy a Car Transport Trailer with correct French Carte Grise - it rained so hard on the way back that we coundn't see the rear of the van in the mirrors, not to mind seeing the trailer, and as the trailer was 2m46 wide it was a bit of a worry - however we used this to our advantage and we pedalled on a bit coz the following traffic couldn't see our smoke either.

Then several trips to the quarry with a trailer collecting a ton per load of sand or gravel.

Then the big one - round trip from here in Bretagne to Lincolnshire to visit family , deliver a 1968 mini cooper that we had sold and to collect a 2 post lift. a 1700km round trip.

All this travel with no working speedo , no power assisted brakes (rock hard pedal) and black sooty smoke at the slightest touch of the accelerator.

However, the trailer which we used to transport the mini was our old UK trailer, and we managed to sell it over there which was a bonus.

We knew the post lift wouldn't fit in the van - so we removed the bench seat and bought another drivers seat which we fitted in the passengers side - giving us a nice 700kg coffee table between passenger and driver.

Some friends helped load the post lift , they put it into the van first at the back with a manitou, then told us to drive forward - yep - sure - press clutch, engage 1st, release clutch and gun the poor old 1.9td - go nowhere....
front wheels barely touching the ground and spraying stoned everywhere. Got it loaded in the end though.

Anyway the good old girl got us home and you all know that feeling of satisfaction and connection with a vehicle when you have done loads of work on it, and it slogs on, not pretty or modern but you are proud of it anyway.

Now to the brakes which need sorting by October 13th.

There was a deal on a local website for a new servo for a Boxer 1.9td for 108euros (about £70) - no photos - but we took a risk and had it anyway.

It arrived and the connection with the pedal was a pin with a hole in it - rather than a fork as on ours. We went to the scrapyard and bought the correct pedal from another van. We also installed a PIERBURG vacuum pump which we took off a xsara 1.9td which we had bought for 150euros.

Great squidgy pedal on first press along with almost going through the windscreen, harder on second press after about a wait of 5 seconds - rock hard after that.

We should mention that the new servo was 288mm diameter and the old one was 272mm.

We were thinking that we had a leak or that the vacuum pump was not man enough to replenish the servo quickly.

We popped the pipe off the servo and revved the engine - we had suction from the Pierburg.

We fitted a succession of 2 Bosch pumps we had - no suction on tickover - better suction under revs - not much good really if you are slowing down coming up to a roundabout. Surely thats not normal for a Bosch - but both Bosch pumps do the same.

We then decided to refit the Pierburg and temporarily bypass all the pipework including the EGR etc.
So , its strong rubber hose onto the pump , decent size bore copper pipe up to the servo, then rubber hose onto the servo.

It was worse - hard right from the beginning.

Also , the one-way valve on the servo to keep in the vacuum is new.

This one is driving us mad - we must be close to having great brakes - but we dont have them at the moment.

Also , to recap - its drums at the rear and twin-pop calipers at the front which we have rebuilt with new seals.
The brakes do not stick or bind either.

Have any of you nice people got a solution to this one ?

[CitroJim]

That's a terribly odd one... Have you checked you have vacuum right at the servo and have you thought about trying a test source of vacuum.. I believe there are test vacuum pumps you can get to run checks across other things the operate via vacuum...

[xsaras4ever]

Thanks for that Jim.

We have suction right up at the servo, havn't done a reading on how much though.

Today we refitted the original servo and pedal, but with the PIERBURG pump from a xsara.

We had an improved squidgy pedal, but getting hard on the 3rd touch and rock hard with no real braking (just slowing down) on the 4th touch.

Looking at the Peugeot website (and online parts suppliers here) we see that the pump for the Xsara and Boxer are the same and common across most of the range. We were hoping to find that as the boxer has a bigger servo and braking system that the pump might be different and have a bigger suck on it - but no.

Our French neighbour is certain it is the master cylinder - but we cannot figure out the logic in that because we would either have sticking brakes or no brakes. Any ideas on that suggestion ?

We are picking up a Xsara with a dw8 engine tomorrow - will have a look at the pump on that.

Its logical that when we refitted the original servo (and therefore reducing the size of the servo) that we had an improvement.

Its a bit of an expense to buy a new pump - especially if it doesn't solve the problem - but it still appears that the pump isn't able to suck fast enough after braking to allow the servo to work properly for successive braking.

Any suggestions would be most gratefully received.

[myglaren]

Going out on a limb a bit here but could it be the filter in the servo blocked and restricting recovery - WAG really as I haven't encountered problems similar to this previously.

[xsaras4ever]

Thanks for that myglaren, but unlikely, as the new servo wouldn't have had that problem.

On the suggestion from a neighbourof it being the master cylinder - we just cant figure that one out in our heads.

If the master cylinder was sticking, then surely the brakes would be sticking ?

Also , as the servo operates by vacuum and a big spring in it - no matter what the master-cylinder did, the servo would still be squidgy.

We will try to replace the braided rubber pipes we installed with hard plastic piper to eliminate pipe collapse !!!

Our deal on the dw8 xsara fell through, so we will try to get our hands on another vacuum pump.

Bit of a crazy suggestion coming - if we had the van stationary in the yard and connected the hoover to the servo, it would replicate a very good vacuum pump. Then we could test if the pedal is squidgy all the time......would the hoover be too strong for the servo ? Or are we completely bonkers.....

[lexi]

If you can eliminate the servo, then carefully clamping the brake hoses can tell you how MC is functioning.....or not.

[xsaras4ever]

Hello to all again.

Progress , maybe even fixed.

We bought a Xsara Estate at the weekend as we were tired of our 3 door Pug 206, coz our children have legs that are too long.

Anyway , it is also a 1.9td.

Whipped the vacuum pump off of it this morning - turned it by hand - a good oily sucking sound.

Fitted it to the Boxer - hey presto - squidgy pedal about 6 times in a row - and after that not totally hard.

We have a worrying theory though.....

Its that the engine is not pumping oil up to the vacuum pump and it gets dry and therefore doesn't create enough suck.

Any thoughts on that ?

We are going to pop the pump off and fire up the engine to see if it squirts oil out the side of the head.

[xsaras4ever]

Also , forgot to mention that the latest pump is not BOSCH or PIERBURG, but MAGNETI MARELLI.

[xsaras4ever]

Help

No oil coming out when pump removed.

Its a Xantia engine in our Boxerand we have a residual memory that there was a blanking plate over the end of the camshaft and no pump fitted !!!

There appears to be a brass blanking stopper in the hole too.

Where did the Xantia draw its vacuum ?

[CitroJim]

Where did the Xantia draw its vacuum ?

Later 1.9TD Xantias had a vacuum pump for controlling the EGR and Fast Idle electrovalves.. Earlier 1.9TD Xantias had no requirement for vacuum and therefore had no pump fitted but did have a blanking plate over the end of the cam.

Citroen Hydraulic brakes such as in the Xantia have no servo... No need of one..

It is fair then that the oil feed to the pump would be blanked off...

[xsaras4ever]

Hello Jim and thanks for that - confirms our diagnosis.

Feel like plonkers for not remembering the original blanking plate on the cam - but at the time, after doing 2 engine swaps we were a bit fatigued.

Still, its a lesson to others, which is what the forum is all about.

Tried tapping the brass to extract it , but no joy in getting it out.

Took a risk - drilled it with a 5mm drill bit.

Did this with the engine running - on the principle that any swarf would be pushed out by the rushing oil.

Don't know how much we have pierced it, but we have oil squirting out in a thin bead at good pressure.

Oil is oil , some is better than none.

Do you reckon it will be ok ?

There is a little filter on the vacuum pump , we will clean it after a hours use.

We have the Contre-Visit (re-test for MoT) in 90 minutes and its 30 minutes away.

We are also on the last but one day of out 2 month "stay of execution" for the re-test.

It will be tears (maybe matches and petrol) or a round of French pastries is a few hours !!!!

[CitroJim]

As long as the pump is receiving oil then it should be good... It should not need much and a 5 mm hole will be perfect..

Do you have an O ring groove visible around the oil hole (on the pump) as the oil is at full pressure and the oilway must be sealed to guard against leaks..

Fingers crossed the outcome will be a round of French Pastries

[xsaras4ever]

Beignet and tartelette a citron.

Tasty.

Passed at last.

A massive thank you to all who have contributed.