1.9td questions

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 391
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
Location: Bretagne,France
My Cars: Peugeot 205 TD
Citroen Jumper 2.5D
Peugeot 406 Estate 2.0 Hdi
Citroen Saxo Ph2 1.1
Audi A3 1.9D
Pembleton 3 Wheeler
1959 Kelsey GT
1957 Fordson Power Major Tractor
1964 Nuffield 4/60 Tractor
1967 Nuffield 10/60 Tractor
1963 Allis Chalmers ED40 Tractor
1984 JCB 3CX
x 39

Re: 1.9td questions

Post by xsaras4ever »

Thanks for that CitroJim.

Now getting closer to installing replacement engine.

Out of curiosity we removed the head on the original.

When we popped it off we thought - Wow - the pistons looked clean.

Ran a finger across them - wet with a thin film of oil.

All 4.

Strange.

Very unlikely to have a ring problem on all 4 pistons.
Very unlikely to have valve stem oil-seals bad on all 4.

Surely it has to be coming through the intake manifold ?
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49534
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6163
Contact:

Re: 1.9td questions

Post by CitroJim »

The oil may have come via the crankcase breather system... This is the normal reason for oil condensate being present in the inlet tract and often gathers in the intercoooler...

This is quite normal...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 391
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
Location: Bretagne,France
My Cars: Peugeot 205 TD
Citroen Jumper 2.5D
Peugeot 406 Estate 2.0 Hdi
Citroen Saxo Ph2 1.1
Audi A3 1.9D
Pembleton 3 Wheeler
1959 Kelsey GT
1957 Fordson Power Major Tractor
1964 Nuffield 4/60 Tractor
1967 Nuffield 10/60 Tractor
1963 Allis Chalmers ED40 Tractor
1984 JCB 3CX
x 39

Re: 1.9td questions

Post by xsaras4ever »

Hello CitroJim and thanks again.

However we are not so sure - from experience but possibly from lack of knowledge. #-o

Any engine we have ever taken apart has been fairly dry - yes black shiny pistons sometimes but not much. More often quite dry black carbon.

The air intakes will be damp with oil but generally the heat in the combustion chamber keeps the piston and bore a little more dry.

You could scrape the oil/grease off these pistons with your finger-nail - we have never encountered that.

Admittedly we cannot remember when we last took the head off a turbo engine so not much (maybe none) experience there.

Anyway, progressing slowly - gearbox bolted to engine last night - manifolds and turbo tonight.

Its been a slow one this - and that gearbox weighs a ton.
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 391
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
Location: Bretagne,France
My Cars: Peugeot 205 TD
Citroen Jumper 2.5D
Peugeot 406 Estate 2.0 Hdi
Citroen Saxo Ph2 1.1
Audi A3 1.9D
Pembleton 3 Wheeler
1959 Kelsey GT
1957 Fordson Power Major Tractor
1964 Nuffield 4/60 Tractor
1967 Nuffield 10/60 Tractor
1963 Allis Chalmers ED40 Tractor
1984 JCB 3CX
x 39

Re: 1.9td questions

Post by xsaras4ever »

Engine and gearbox finally prepared to go IN

Image

Image

After taking van out of garage and powerwashing engine bay -- no --- don't think they will allow us on the road like this -- discover that IN is not ready to engine.

Rot in both front inner wings - under battery tray and under air filter - time to get the welder out

Image
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49534
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6163
Contact:

Re: 1.9td questions

Post by CitroJim »

Looking sweet!
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 391
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
Location: Bretagne,France
My Cars: Peugeot 205 TD
Citroen Jumper 2.5D
Peugeot 406 Estate 2.0 Hdi
Citroen Saxo Ph2 1.1
Audi A3 1.9D
Pembleton 3 Wheeler
1959 Kelsey GT
1957 Fordson Power Major Tractor
1964 Nuffield 4/60 Tractor
1967 Nuffield 10/60 Tractor
1963 Allis Chalmers ED40 Tractor
1984 JCB 3CX
x 39

Re: 1.9td questions

Post by xsaras4ever »

Thanks Jim, its been slow getting to this..
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 391
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
Location: Bretagne,France
My Cars: Peugeot 205 TD
Citroen Jumper 2.5D
Peugeot 406 Estate 2.0 Hdi
Citroen Saxo Ph2 1.1
Audi A3 1.9D
Pembleton 3 Wheeler
1959 Kelsey GT
1957 Fordson Power Major Tractor
1964 Nuffield 4/60 Tractor
1967 Nuffield 10/60 Tractor
1963 Allis Chalmers ED40 Tractor
1984 JCB 3CX
x 39

Re: 1.9td questions

Post by xsaras4ever »

Hello again to all.

Engine bay welding completed and bay painted. Engine is in but not fully connected.


On the bodged wiring thing - been having a good look and the reason it wasn't immediately apparent is because there are 2 bodges.

1.) ignition to solenoids on injection pump - key symbol lit on dashboard. Standard bodge to by-pass immobiliser - though we cannot see a lexia port anywhere so that we could re-code keys.

2.) Pre-heater control box - removed completely.

It has been replaced by a relay and a switch on the dashboard. You pull the switch for 10 seconds and it activates the relay which fires current through it directly from the battery.

It works , its ugly, its stupidly clever in its own way.

We visited the scrappy and bought a box from a 1.9td xantia. The 5 pin connector fitted. We wired the input direct to the battery and the output to the plugs. Nothing.

Checked the fuses, no fuse present for the pre-heater - worrying.

Fitted a fuse , it worked - but the preheater box didn't stop delivering current when the ignition was on , ever.

The fuse smoked and melted - but didn't blow - weird.

Would like to return it to original - any suggestions from a more electrically minded person than us ?

Thanks to all once again.
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Re: 1.9td questions

Post by citronut »

sound like you have connected the wrong wire directly to the battery??????,
Regards, malcolm.

current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
purple and lilac metalic 2CV(VIOLET)registered to her in doors
1972 DS special been layed up aprox 31 years
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 391
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
Location: Bretagne,France
My Cars: Peugeot 205 TD
Citroen Jumper 2.5D
Peugeot 406 Estate 2.0 Hdi
Citroen Saxo Ph2 1.1
Audi A3 1.9D
Pembleton 3 Wheeler
1959 Kelsey GT
1957 Fordson Power Major Tractor
1964 Nuffield 4/60 Tractor
1967 Nuffield 10/60 Tractor
1963 Allis Chalmers ED40 Tractor
1984 JCB 3CX
x 39

Re: 1.9td questions

Post by xsaras4ever »

No , dont think so. Wired it as it was in the Xantia. Side with big brown in-line fuses to battery (10mm on box)

Smaller side (8mm) to plugs.

You would expect the fuse to blow before the plastic casing of the fuse melted , scary that.

Also , no glow-plug symbol on dashboard, although dont really know if the boxer had one- but would expect it surely had.
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Re: 1.9td questions

Post by citronut »

if it were one of the inline after market blade type fuse holder,maybe it was not tight enough on either the fuse legs or the cable connections
Regards, malcolm.

current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
purple and lilac metalic 2CV(VIOLET)registered to her in doors
1972 DS special been layed up aprox 31 years
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 391
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
Location: Bretagne,France
My Cars: Peugeot 205 TD
Citroen Jumper 2.5D
Peugeot 406 Estate 2.0 Hdi
Citroen Saxo Ph2 1.1
Audi A3 1.9D
Pembleton 3 Wheeler
1959 Kelsey GT
1957 Fordson Power Major Tractor
1964 Nuffield 4/60 Tractor
1967 Nuffield 10/60 Tractor
1963 Allis Chalmers ED40 Tractor
1984 JCB 3CX
x 39

Re: 1.9td questions

Post by xsaras4ever »

Yep , will look at loose fuses.


Almost there, most welding done and rads connected.

Filled up with water (antifreeze later when all is well) and it weeped out of the head gasket.

Our own fault as we didn't buy new bolts, and on the tightening we torqued them up and then from memory its 110deg + 110deg.

Our bolts sqeaked a lot (and we got very scared) so we did 90deg and then nothing.

Will order new bolts and fit them. Damn - another delay.
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
lexi
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 2803
Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 17:51
Location: Scotland
My Cars:
x 138

Re: 1.9td questions

Post by lexi »

Always a good idea to run a bottoming tap down the head holes. If no tap then a head bolt with a slot cut down it can gather dirt and swarf for you.
Amazing what comes out.
Citroen C5 1.6 HDI 110bhp Estate 06 plate

French Mistresses gone.
Citroen C5 HDI Mk 1 hatchback
Vel Satis 3.5 v6
ZX 1.9D Est.
ZX 1.9DHatch
Xantia 1.9td est.
Xantia 2.0 hdi Est.
Xantia V6 MK1
Xantia V6 MK 2
Xantidote
Posts: 1146
Joined: 03 May 2009, 22:07
Location: Merseyside
My Cars:
x 5

Re: 1.9td questions

Post by Xantidote »

lexi wrote:Amazing what comes out.
A compressed air "gun" is good for blowing the cr*p out
Martin

1995 Xantia TDLX (deceased :( )
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Re: 1.9td questions

Post by citronut »

Xantidote wrote:
A compressed air "gun" is good for blowing the cr*p out
thats what i use
Regards, malcolm.

current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
purple and lilac metalic 2CV(VIOLET)registered to her in doors
1972 DS special been layed up aprox 31 years
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 391
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
Location: Bretagne,France
My Cars: Peugeot 205 TD
Citroen Jumper 2.5D
Peugeot 406 Estate 2.0 Hdi
Citroen Saxo Ph2 1.1
Audi A3 1.9D
Pembleton 3 Wheeler
1959 Kelsey GT
1957 Fordson Power Major Tractor
1964 Nuffield 4/60 Tractor
1967 Nuffield 10/60 Tractor
1963 Allis Chalmers ED40 Tractor
1984 JCB 3CX
x 39

Re: 1.9td questions

Post by xsaras4ever »

Very Very bad day today.

Torqued head down yesterday. 60nm + 110deg + 110deg.

Cripes - no chance to overtorque this we thought - arms aching.

Put all back together today - filled with water - no leak at head-gasket.

Started engine - selected 1st gear - lifted clutch - nothing.

Selected any gear - nothing.

Slackened off clutch cable - nothing.

Disconnected clutch cable completely - nothing - no forward or reverse movement of van.

Crawled underneath for the umpteenth time - cable nicely operate gearbox - but no movement.

With van in any gear you wish we can push it - no gearbox being engaged with engine. Its a new clutch and pressure plate and release bearing but same old gearbox and linkage.

Very puzzled - only thoughts are that clutch cable was too tight and as its been sat in garage like that for at least a month the pressure-plate has seized in an open position - or its the wrong clutch - but we measured it. Absolutely puzzled and cheesed off.

But it gets worse.

It still smoked like hell and we had a blow at the exhaust where the turbo exit manifold joined the exhaust pipe.
We un-did the two bolts here and by co-incidence topped up the water - it ran out of the exhaust.

Checked the oil - now too much and grey - it was only 10 minutes old.

Cracked head for certain we think. All that work - new stem seals - regrinding valves - everything - all for nothing.
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
Post Reply