Classic for under £10K

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Gibbo2286
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Re: Classic for under £10K-what would be nice?

Post by Gibbo2286 » 22 Jan 2019, 10:49

They suffered badly with cylinder head gasket problems.

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Re: Classic for under £10K-what would be nice?

Post by NewcastleFalcon » 22 Jan 2019, 12:02

Here's wiki's info on it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_D ... ite_Sprint

...A team of engineers led by Spen King developed a 16-valve cylinder head with all of the valves being actuated using a single camshaft rather than the more conventional DOHC arrangement. The capacity was also increased to 1,998 cc (122 cu in), and combined with bigger carburettors the output was upped to 122 lb⋅ft (165 N⋅m) at 4,500 rpm and 127 bhp (95 kW) at 5,700 rpm. This represented a significant power increase over the smaller 1850cc variant, however it fell short of the original target of 135 bhp (101 kW).

Despite BL engineers being able to extract a reliable 150 bhp (112 kW) from test engines,[4] the production line was unable to build the engines to the same level of quality, with production outputs being in the region of 125 bhp (93 kW) to 130 bhp (97 kW). This led to the original model designation, the Dolomite 135, being replaced at short notice with the Sprint name.
Its rapid enough for me 0-60 in 8.4s and a top speed of 119 mph.

Regards Neil

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Re: Classic for under £10K-what would be nice?

Post by white exec » 22 Jan 2019, 12:05

myglaren wrote:
22 Jan 2019, 10:43
I very briefly had a maroon one. Lovely little car.
Ours was an 1850HL, in British Racing Green - PAP400R - Wonder if still on the road?
Great fun, except that you sat on it to drive, not in it - not the most ensconcing of front seats.

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Re: Classic for under £10K-what would be nice?

Post by CitroJim » 22 Jan 2019, 14:31

Gibbo2286 wrote:
22 Jan 2019, 10:49
They suffered badly with cylinder head gasket problems.


Yes, sadly they did :( I always understood there were two reasons for this: poor casting quality leaving much sand behind in the waterways and a basic design flaw whereby the water pump was very high in the block resulting in just a relatively small fall in coolant level causing circulation to cease...

The same basic layout was used in the Stag V8 engine and it to suffered similar cooling problems, only twice-over!

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Re: Classic for under £10K-what would be nice?

Post by NewcastleFalcon » 22 Jan 2019, 19:28

Well I've given this Vauxhall Victor Super an airing on the Remember these? thread but just in bits.

Here's the whole thing, and its really nicely presented, up for sale at Matthewsons on 9th February.
A Mark I Cortina in similar condition would probably achieve double or treble the estimated sale price of the Vauxhall.
REgards Neil

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Re: Classic for under £10K-what would be nice?

Post by moizeau » 22 Jan 2019, 21:13

CitroJim wrote:
22 Jan 2019, 14:31
Gibbo2286 wrote:
22 Jan 2019, 10:49
They suffered badly with cylinder head gasket problems.


Yes, sadly they did :( I always understood there were two reasons for this: poor casting quality leaving much sand behind in the waterways and a basic design flaw whereby the water pump was very high in the block resulting in just a relatively small fall in coolant level causing circulation to cease...

The same basic layout was used in the Stag V8 engine and it to suffered similar cooling problems, only twice-over!

So this answers the question, did BL make the engine for SAAB or vice verser? I presumed the former. The engines are pretty much identical, to the point that I rebuilt my Sprint engine using the SAAB 900 BOLs. The water pump is still very high on the SAAB but the distance between the cylinders is larger to improve cooling (I believe). My Sprint engine didn't die due to the head though, it was a main shell wrapping itself around the crankshaft! Love the overdrive for overtaking....3rd, 3rd and a half, clutch to 4th, then 4th and a half, 3rd and 4th with their 'other halves' are exquisite.

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Re: Classic for under £10K-what would be nice?

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur » 23 Jan 2019, 00:04

Super-rare 504 Est just come up at ACA's sale soon; cor they haven't all gone to the Crusher / Africa.

Right up my strata ! (if it were a DERV and I had the space & money)

Surprised at the 4-5K price guide, doesn't seem like enough [not that I've a Scooby about 504 values, but must be fairly high due to near-zero supply]. The front view with the valance visible implies to me the underside might be less than Mint; possibly not 'Polo' (Holy); just not mint.

Be curious what it fetches if anyone's going...

https://angliacarauctions.co.uk/classic ... -7-seater/
504.JPG

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Re: Classic for under £10K-what would be nice?

Post by CitroJim » 23 Jan 2019, 05:46

moizeau wrote:
22 Jan 2019, 21:13
So this answers the question, did BL make the engine for SAAB or vice verser? I presumed the former. The engines are pretty much identical, to the point that I rebuilt my Sprint engine using the SAAB 900 BOLs.


Good question Pete!

I believe Triumph sold the design to Saab and they made some improvements before putting it into production... Those improvements might just have been better build quality... It was certainly more reliable in the Saab...

I wonder if the Saab version would be a direct and easy swap for a troublesome Triumph unit?

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Re: Classic for under £10K-what would be nice?

Post by Gibbo2286 » 23 Jan 2019, 11:25

CitroJim wrote:
23 Jan 2019, 05:46
moizeau wrote:
22 Jan 2019, 21:13
So this answers the question, did BL make the engine for SAAB or vice verser? I presumed the former. The engines are pretty much identical, to the point that I rebuilt my Sprint engine using the SAAB 900 BOLs.


Good question Pete!

I believe Triumph sold the design to Saab and they made some improvements before putting it into production... Those improvements might just have been better build quality... It was certainly more reliable in the Saab...

I wonder if the Saab version would be a direct and easy swap for a troublesome Triumph unit?


But still had the water pump problems, I can't remember too much but sheared off/seized shafts in the Saab but not the Triumph comes to mind.

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Re: Classic for under £10K-what would be nice?

Post by NewcastleFalcon » 23 Jan 2019, 12:14

The SAAB 99 version of the slant4 developed from the Triumph unit, was fitted back to front with the clutch and flywheel at the front of the engine......whether this causes difficulties in a "straight swop" I dont know.

I've had an enjoyable meander through wiki, piston heads and the dolomite sprint forums plenty of information out there including some discussion about using the SAAB unit in a sprint.

I would think that even if it were an easy swop, very few "enthusiasts" would do it. As a classic, an original engine is a greater selling point than "fitted with a SAAB engine".
PH-1975 Triumph Dolomite Sprint Its full of good pictures , old adverts, and discussions on weighty matters like a possible SAAB transplant (page 12!)


Regards Neil

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Re: Classic for under £10K-what would be nice?

Post by CitroJim » 23 Jan 2019, 12:34

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
23 Jan 2019, 12:14
I would think that even if it were an easy swop, very few "enthusiasts" would do it. As a classic, an original engine is a greater selling point than "fitted with a SAAB engine".



Very true Neil... Hence why Stags with their original V8s and NSU Ro80s still having their original Wankels attract a good premium...

Do I remember correctly that a popular swap in the Ro80 was the Ford V4 as fitted to some Corsairs, Transits and Saabs? Not a particularly wonderful engine if what I've heard about them is true...

Stags, I guess, got the Rover V8 in place of their originals...

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Re: Classic for under £10K-what would be nice?

Post by NewcastleFalcon » 23 Jan 2019, 18:44

CitroJim wrote:
23 Jan 2019, 12:34
Do I remember correctly that a popular swap in the Ro80 was the Ford V4 as fitted to some Corsairs, Transits and Saabs? Not a particularly wonderful engine if what I've heard about them is true...

Stags, I guess, got the Rover V8 in place of their originals...


You know your stuff Jim, most of my knowledge is knowing where to look it up!

So wiki provides the answer yet again and has me curious about the firm that offered the conversion :-D

Alternative power source
In the UK, owners left with cars with seized engines were provided with a solution by the Hurley Engineering Company. They supplied a torque converter adapter plate and other fittings so that a Ford Essex V4 engine could be fitted in the space left by a removed rotary engine. It was the only engine short enough to fit in the vacated space without modification to the body work.
Regards Neil

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Re: Classic for under £10K-what would be nice?

Post by CitroJim » 23 Jan 2019, 18:58

:)
NewcastleFalcon wrote:
23 Jan 2019, 18:44
It was the only engine short enough to fit in the vacated space without modification to the body work.

And hence perhaps why the Ford V4 was used in the Saab 96... It was originally designed to be powered by the tripe two-stroke engine. That was a very compact engine so the V4 was perhaps the only one that wouold fit without large body changes...

Interestingly, the Issigonis Morris Minor was designed originally to house a flat-four and hence its engine bay is roomierthan it stritly needed to be for the side-vale and then the A-Series so fitted... Many modders have been grateful for this since...

For the Mini, Issigonis even experimented with a transverse twin cylinder version of the A-Series... It was not a success... The original Mini prototypes (wearing A35 grilles) had the engine intalled backwards with the carb facing the front... It was not successful as it was so prone to icing-up...

Closer to home, I believe the the Citroen DS was initially designed for a flat-six that never got beyond prototype stage and the CX was designed for a Comotor three-chamber Wankel... A Trirotor perhaps to accompany the GS-based Birotor...

Again, never got beyond prototype stage and we all now what happend to Comotor, what it did to NSU and what it almost did to Citroen :(

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Re: Classic for under £10K-what would be nice?

Post by moizeau » 23 Jan 2019, 20:21

Thanks for the link Neil, nice read. So Triumph developed the engine, SAAB took it and used it before Triumph, then SAAB redeveloped it into the H Block, which is what's in my c900. An 8v single carb that does 20 to the gallon irrespective how you drive it or how fast you cruise at.

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Re: Classic for under £10K-what would be nice?

Post by NewcastleFalcon » 24 Jan 2019, 00:06

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
23 Jan 2019, 18:44
CitroJim wrote:
23 Jan 2019, 12:34
Do I remember correctly that a popular swap in the Ro80 was the Ford V4 as fitted to some Corsairs, Transits and Saabs? Not a particularly wonderful engine if what I've heard about them is true...

So wiki provides the answer yet again and has me curious about the firm that offered the conversion :-D
In the UK, owners left with cars with seized engines were provided with a solution by the Hurley Engineering Company.


Found out a little bit about Hurley Motor Engineering Limited....of Coventry
https://coventry.cylex-uk.co.uk/company ... 46114.html

Hurley Motor Engineering Limited, HME, was started in 1975 by Eamon Hurley to carry out Ford V4 and V6 engine conversions to the first Rotary Engined car the NSU Ro80. The first Ro80 to be converted was his own, this led to a big demand for this conversion because the NSU Rotary was proving to be somewhat unreliable.
Naturally we ended up with an awful lot of NSU Rotary Engines, we had always been involved in drag racing motorcycles, so we decided to build the rotary engined dragbike Concord to use up all the redundant engines.
We often got through 2-3 engines per weekend, but then we started to learn how make the rotary engine more reliable, in the end we were getting 400BHP @ 11, 000 RPM and winning races, Best time in 1982, 8.2 @ 164MPH. The last run we had on Concord was in 1986, when we crashed at 156 MPH (no bones broken, thank God!).
Regards Neil