If it goes to court there....it will here soon !

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Northern_Mike

Re: If it goes to court there....it will here soon !

Post by Northern_Mike »

Hell Razor5543 wrote:
qprdude wrote:Pity than the vast majority of Americans have no knowledge or experience of anything beyond their own borders, and quite often their State borders. Had to have a laugh at the guy who complained that the Prius is the most polluting car ever. His reasoning was mostly because of the ships that bring the Prius to America are hugely polluting!!
I wonder if he thinks the BMW's, Mercs, Honda's etc arrive at their golden shores courtesy of a magic fairy?
Another one reckons it's his money, his choice and he will do as he damn well pleases! Yeah, planet earth calling mate.
The Prius is not as clean as the un-informed think. Think about the manufacturing processes, and the recyclability of it (such as the batteries). It also depends on how it is driven. I recall a Top Gear program where they had a few high speed laps with a Prius versus a BMW M5, and at the speeds they were travelling the BMW had a much better MPG.
Yes... now reverse the test and use the M5 at usual commuting speeds and see which uses the most fuel...
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Re: If it goes to court there....it will here soon !

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I do not dispute that, when driven at its' most economical speed, the Prius would easily beat the BMW M5 for fuel economy, especially if the M5 was driven at the same speed. However, if driven hard the Prius is not as economical as the M5 at similar speeds. It holds true for all cars; if I drive Gracie at a gentle speed she will give a far better MPG than if I were to be enthusiastic!

However, if what Top Gear says is true, when they compared the MPG of a Prius against a VW Polo (diesel) the VW was about 5MPG better (at economical speeds).
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Re: If it goes to court there....it will here soon !

Post by citroenxm »

Diesel are mpg cruisers.. the prius comes from a country of traffic jams and stop start which is EXACTLEY what the car is for stop start. the prius will beat any normal car in its intended design stage ..

its like comparing a robin reliant for speed and handling against an activa the robin is not a racer.

as a city car its the cleanest ..
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Re: If it goes to court there....it will here soon !

Post by Northern_Mike »

citroenxm wrote: its like comparing a robin reliant for speed and handling against an activa the robin is not a racer.

as a city car its the cleanest ..
I'd bet it's not you know Paul, they're an uncatalysed, smelly old beast. I'd imagine that even doing twice the mpg in town of an Activa, a Robin (at least a pre-1992 one) still pollutes far more.

Even my 480kg DRK with it's 1100cc Renault engine only does 50mpg when driven gently, and boy, can you smell the pollutants being chucked out of if if you stand by the exhaust pipe when it's ticking over.
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Re: If it goes to court there....it will here soon !

Post by citroenxm »

northern_mike wrote:
citroenxm wrote: its like comparing a robin reliant for speed and handling against an activa the robin is not a racer.

as a city car its the cleanest ..
I'd bet it's not you know Paul, they're an uncatalysed, smelly old beast. I'd imagine that even doing twice the mpg in town of an Activa, a Robin (at least a pre-1992 one) still pollutes far more.

Even my 480kg DRK with it's 1100cc Renault engine only does 50mpg when driven gently, and boy, can you smell the pollutants being chucked out of if if you stand by the exhaust pipe when it's ticking over.

Sorry, mike, by "as a city car its the cleanest.." I meant the PRIUS... Sorry, mis-informed everyone on that above...
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Re: If it goes to court there....it will here soon !

Post by Gibbo2286 »

All this talk about the wicked Americans makes me chuckle, California is one of the toughest places for emissions control in the world.
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Re: If it goes to court there....it will here soon !

Post by Stickyfinger »

Gibbo2286 wrote:All this talk about the wicked Americans makes me chuckle, California is one of the toughest places for emissions control in the world.
But they are not Americans are they :)

The above yes, but cars are not the main problem in CA. Power generation, farming and industrial are the USA's main problems.
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Re: If it goes to court there....it will here soon !

Post by qprdude »

Gibbo2286 wrote:All this talk about the wicked Americans makes me chuckle, California is one of the toughest places for emissions control in the world.

The American Lung Association produces a State of the Air report each year, which details the U.S. cities with the worst air pollution. Major states like California and Texas largely dominate the list, thanks to their size, with repeat offender cities such as Los Angeles, Houston and Dallas.


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Re: If it goes to court there....it will here soon !

Post by Northern_Mike »

Gibbo2286 wrote:All this talk about the wicked Americans makes me chuckle, California is one of the toughest places for emissions control in the world.
From what I can work out, our Euro emissions limits for vehicles are at least as strict, if not stricter than those in California.
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Re: If it goes to court there....it will here soon !

Post by lexi »

I don't know about them being city cars them Hybrids though. Any Insights or Prius I look at seem to have hefty diesel type mileage on them. And them little VVTI and Vtech engines can do the miles.
If you have a car good on fuel, you do tend to drive everywhere and use more........well why not?
There are 4 mechanics in mates place all under 40yrs old. Their cars are 2 scoobys a Focus ST with 5cyl volvo and a hot Audi.........all chipped. They seem not too bothered. They will start checking cars if they think success ratio for a nice void claim is on the cards.

Was Jesus not from California? :roll:
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Re: If it goes to court there....it will here soon !

Post by Northern_Mike »

lexi wrote:I don't know about them being city cars them Hybrids though. Any Insights or Prius I look at seem to have hefty diesel type mileage on them. And them little VVTI and Vtech engines can do the miles.
They can, but the average economy is nowhere near as good as the Prius. My friend has an 08 plate Prius T-Spirit with over 200k miles on it now, and it's averaged 48mpg since he had it. That includes a lot of town driving, and a hell of a lot of motorway driving for work. You'd be hard pushed to beat that in any car. Yes, my C5 will do more mpg at a cruising speed, but around town? No way.

The other problem is that all those little VVTI and Vtech motors power tiny cars like the Aygo and C1... a Prius has more room inside, and in the boot than my C5. They're huge things. So, you effectively get a nice family sized car with lots of space and toys, for the running costs of a C1 (or less!)

The only thing I don't like about Priuses is the dozy handling and the fact I can't hear them in car parks when they are creeping about.
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Re: If it goes to court there....it will here soon !

Post by elma »

northern_mike wrote:
lexi wrote:
The only thing I don't like about Priuses is the dozy handling and the fact I can't hear them in car parks when they are creeping about.

Yep, one lives around the corner to me. It sneaks up on me often. All you can hear is the tyre noise which is drowned out by a mild breeze. I often think they should have a speaker on the front making an engine noise.

On the subject of the Environment Lithium doesn't seem like a good material to me. Everyone knows it is toxic to dispose of but many seem unaware of the unpleasant origin. It is mined in concentrations far lower than required in hot, mineral rich places. As it would cost a fortune to evaporate the excess water off they put it in man made lake pool things and let the Sun do most of it then finish it off in a factory. The lake pool things are really toxic although they are a nice colour.

I haven't done the maths myself yet as I'm no where near buying an electric car but I question weather over an average life the extra Lithium in an E car compensates for the extra oil burnt by a traditional one. I don't trust the summaries we read as they will only look at Nitrogen Oxides or CO2 or whatever. Best way is to write it all down and compare the input to the output in full. With the focus on the subject though I don't see why in 5 years electric will be better in every way and utilising much greener batteries. If this is the case I'd like to see an electric Citroen with Ferro fluid suspension and caliperless electromagnetic brakes.

Regarding chipping an engine, I don't see the problem on a used car. Probably wouldn't want it on a new one though.
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Re: If it goes to court there....it will here soon !

Post by KP »

If you do slow driving all the time the prius isnt always as good.
They weigh quite a bit thanks to a load of junk in them.
They can only do a small mileage on battery only power and if your not using the regen braking its not being topped up a lot unless the powertrain is used to regen it.
They originally travelled the world when being built as the parts were sent around the planet to build them.

They float some peoples boats but hybrids for me are just a small step in the car chain onto full EV's.

I'll stick with my veg XM for as long as I can as I know its overall footprint is less than me scrapping it and going out and buying a new car :D
Northern_Mike

Re: If it goes to court there....it will here soon !

Post by Northern_Mike »

Top Gear. . Even Top Gear claim to have got 54mpg average out of their test 2013 Prius despite not being gentle with it.

Toyota say the Prius is now 95% fully recyclable - including the battery.

It's about the same size (but bigger inside) than a Xantia TD saloon, weighs slightly less and goes slightly faster.
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Re: If it goes to court there....it will here soon !

Post by KP »

The Xantia however has;

Costs NOWHERE near as much by a long shot
greatly reduced fullife running cost's
is cheaper to fuel
much simpler to maintain
Hasn't just sucked up another load of natural resources to be built
And near enough all its parts came from within the EU if not france instead of being shipped around the world to be built.
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