Elmas Xantia V6 and Musical Stuff

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Elmas Xantia V6 and the joys of the countryside

Post by Stickyfinger »

You will be amazed how much that foam can absorb

elma
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Re: Elmas Xantia V6 and the joys of the countryside

Post by elma »

Had a look around the stores and I found roofers flashing tape and clear silicone. I think I'll put a bead of silicone on, it shouldn't be a problem to get off come matrix time. I'm going to cut a strip of flashing tape to cover the gap all the way across the screen to make sure. Hopefully if I cut it well it will look fairly original. I know the scuttle looks delaminated so hopefully I'm not jumping the gun assuming thats the leak, this car has no sunroof so I don't think theres much else to blame.

I have a drying room set up that sorts out laundry in no time so I'll stick the carpet in there until next weekend and plonk a giant dehumidifier in the car for a couple of days instead of a passenger seat.

I noticed a little oil patch under the engine today. It's probably been doing it for a while as the drive was too dirty to show it. Makes me want my leaks sorted faster. I can smell oil after I've driven which I know is the sump and the cam boxes leaking. Once this leaky pipe to the pump is fixed I need to prioritise the jobs and aim to do one a week.

Might as well start now:
Can do here and now
Leaky Cabin (on it now)
Aerial fixing (on it now)
LHM Pump pipe leak (part in the post)
Spare Bulbs (order Friday)
Tracking (booked a week monday)
Headlamp Relay Mod (next weekend, order a relay and connectors today)
Good headlight bulbs (order Friday)
Saggy Headliner (spare weekend)


Can do after Wales trip
Proper cleaning with polish, wax and stuff.
Pressure Test coolant system (not 100% convinced no leaks)
Centre block leak (apparently base of electrovalve)
Pressure Reg Leaks (probably 2 small pipe unions)
Alternator Belt (it's worn)
Gearbox Oil
Oil Change (Have oil and filter, waiting for copper washer and tools)
Sump Leak
Front Brakes (Have Pads and fitting kit, need Discs £67)
Spark Plugs (plus leads, gasket, coil pack?)
Rear Brakes
LHM filter Clean and Change
Cambox leak
Timing Belt
Center Spheres.

Later, not so important
Good Tyres
Heater Matrix
RPM and dipped light bulbs blown
Pollen Filter
Bodywork improvements

Possibly the suspension and steering need a little more work as well. So far I'm only sure of an o/s drop link, the rest is hard to feel because the tracking is so out. The p bushes look ok and the brake hoses are newish, hard to tell much more without a proper jack. I've got some spheres in Wales but I'm not sure which ones, will bring them back and hopefully it's the ones I'd like to replace.

The headlamp relay mod seems quite straightforward with the exception of the connectors. Whats the best way to get around the problem of them not been off the shelf items?

Looking at the job list if I manage one problem a week the car should be right in 3-4 months. Of course they'll be lots more to do but that seems a reasonable amount of time to fix all of the major gremlins.

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CitroJim
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Re: Elmas Xantia V6 and the joys of the countryside

Post by CitroJim »

Carpets must come out James, so that all can thoroughly dry out... It won't otherwise... You're looking at about three weeks for a complete dry-out...

Leak is more than likely the usual scuttle seal... Easy enough to fix...

elma
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Re: Elmas Xantia V6 and the joys of the countryside

Post by elma »

Carpets are already out, taking up the whole drying room and totally soaked. The floor doesn't look too bad, one connector needs a clean up and theres 2 patches of rust to clean up and paint. I already have paint, just need rust treatment and sand paper. The sponge backed sound insulation under the carpets is soaked. Going to be using newspaper and the dehumidifier here I think and hoping for some sunny days so it can sit with the windows open.

Theres no aerial connector in the footwell! When I've sealed the scuttle, which is loose along the entire windscreen, I'm going to have a look at the antennae base to see if theres an issue there. I really want my radio back, I'll run an entirely new lead if I have to but I'd better check another head unit before I go to the trouble.

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CitroJim
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Re: Elmas Xantia V6 and the joys of the countryside

Post by CitroJim »

James, I believe, although have no proof, that some aerials may have had a little preamp in the base...

I have below-par FM reception in my Activa so I need to do much the same investigations... Mine certainly has all the hallmarks of something gone low-gain somewhere...

Luckily Xantia floors rarely rust as a result of water ingress... That big multi-way connector in the passenger foot-well can suffer with long immersion and on one Xantia I had - the original Rattiva - I had to bypass it as it had terminally corroded pins...

That car had been wet for years and resembled a pond...

elma
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Re: Elmas Xantia V6 and the joys of the countryside

Post by elma »

I'll be on the aerial base shortly.

The scuttles sealed now, my silicone work is a bit messy but nicely covered it with grey gaffe tape. I have to find some black, the roof flashing was not self adhesive so I didn't bother with it.

The smaller connector is an issue for me. I'll be bypassing it as well, one pin is so corroded it has snapped. I'm really hoping that it's part of the central locking circuit. Since I've poked the connector I've lost remote locking again so it would be nice.

Just need to get the dehumidifier in the car, do the aerial and sort this connector then I'm finished playing car for the day. Mug of hot chocolate for me first though, cold out there today.

elma
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Re: Elmas Xantia V6 and the joys of the countryside

Post by elma »

IMG_20170319_105211.jpg
IMG_20170319_105157.jpg
This is my troublesome connector.

Anyone know if it actually has anything to do with the central locking?

Need to add check engine fans to my list as well, possibly will manage today.

elma
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Re: Elmas Xantia V6 and the joys of the countryside

Post by elma »

The grey connector is for the remote locking. The wires are the same colour, size and order as at the sensor in the headlining.

I removed them all from the connector, chopped them back to clean wire and reconnected them and now the central locking works.

3 of the wires are filthy inside, they and the broken pin no doubt were the cause of the remote locking playing up.

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CitroJim
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Re: Elmas Xantia V6 and the joys of the countryside

Post by CitroJim »

Wiring diagrams available on request James ;)

elma
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Re: Elmas Xantia V6 and the joys of the countryside

Post by elma »

I'm having trouble understanding the fans now. They don't come on with the aircon. They do come on when driving, not sure if it is one or both. Fuses are all fine. Where do I go next? I've got the grill off and found the relays.

After a bit more investigation I'm getting 14v at pin 1 of the left relay when I turn on the aircon. Also the aircon is turning on, I can see milky clouds in the sight glass. However the fans don't move. They both turn freely by hand.

I guess I've got bad Earth/s, faulty relays, faulty fans or a combination. I need to test the relays with my battery booster first as thats easiest.

Or should I just bridge out the relays and see if I can control the fans manually?

Checked diagram, bridge 3 and 5 on middle and left relays for low speed, bridge 3 and 5 on 3rd relay as well for high speed. That's by far the easiest test so I'm about to try that.

elma
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Re: Elmas Xantia V6 and the joys of the countryside

Post by elma »

I'm very confused.

With all relays removed

Bridging 3 to 5 on the left relay turns on the right fan at what sounds like high speed, well thats assuming left is os and right is ns in both cases.

Bridging 4 to 3 on the change over relay has no effect on the second fan.

Bridging 3 to 5 on the left relay should do nothing until 4 and 3 are bridged on the change over relay then both fans should be on low speed.

Baffled

elma
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Re: Elmas Xantia V6 and the joys of the countryside

Post by elma »

A little more investigating finds that with the ignition on the coils on the left and the changeover relays are powered up. With the engine on they stay in the same state (13v across 1 and 2).

Turning on the aircon turns the right hand relay to energised as well (13v across 1 and 2)

So my supply to the relays is wrong, the relays are faulty and the fans are wired crazily. Surely it can't be as much as that?

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Re: Elmas Xantia V6 and the joys of the countryside

Post by elma »

So having had a look at the diagrams again I think a faulty or unplugged coolant temperature sensor could be why the fans want to be always on.

I wonder if this has caused the connector to overheat and short on itself leading to the odd behaviour of the fans when bridged. It would explain the fried relays as well if the fans were always on for a long period of time.

Anyone know where the V6 coolant sensor is? About to remove the air box and get looking, it's not obvious.

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CitroJim
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Re: Elmas Xantia V6 and the joys of the countryside

Post by CitroJim »

elma wrote: Anyone know where the V6 coolant sensor is? About to remove the air box and get looking, it's not obvious.
The Bitron sesnor - which will control the fans - is located in the side of the rear bank behind and sort of adjacent to the thermostat housing... Be aware it's quite hard to get to!

If the Bitron goes open circuit the fans will want to run at top-speed as a fail-safe.. Often the Bitron sensor is OK but the connector is mucky... You will find there's a connector on the sensor itself and another line-connector about 3 inches away from it... Why theu did this I don't know but often these connectors get sprayed with coolant and that causes dodgy connections..

Relays rarely fail in my experience but the bases do overheat badly... Also, the relay control wires in the loom go open - as happened to Gabriel's...

If you have the circuits, remember series connected for low-speed and parallel connected for high-speed... Two operate to go low-speed and the third operates for high - as I recall and with Gabriel I've spent a lot of time on fans recently...

Disconnecting the Bitron sensor is a good quick and dirty test of basic fan operation...

I've just now got all the bits to sort out Gabriels - once and for all hopefully!

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Re: Elmas Xantia V6 and the joys of the countryside

Post by elma »

The relays are definitely gone as they should power up the rh fan if in the lh relay position and none will. I think the lh one works intermittently as I get full power from the rhs fan randomly which is what it would do if it was working.

I'll track down this Bitron next week, bit fed up of fans now so leaving the car alone for a bit.

There's a wiring problem as well as a control problem, I expect the fans need to come out and be bench tested to get everything resolved.