Xantia II rear brakes, imbalance corrosion and, pipe leak,

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
John Plum
Posts: 567
Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 15:23
x 4

Re: Xantia II rear brakes, imbalance corrosion and, pipe lea

Post by John Plum » 03 Nov 2014, 20:52

I was thinking that tool could produce a flare for cut end of pipe, to which I would join a short section with standard flare on one end for the join, and citron flare on the other end terminating in the K-splitter.

c.morewood
donor 2018
Posts: 980
Joined: 05 Nov 2004, 15:38
x 19

Re: Xantia II rear brakes, imbalance corrosion and, pipe lea

Post by c.morewood » 03 Nov 2014, 21:08

Having just replaced all the rear pipes with cunifer ones, I can tell you that it's fairly simple, Once I realised that it was fairly impossible to follow Citroens route for the pipe. I made my own route, roughly the same but not using the Citroen pipe holders, just cable ties to hold the pipes in place. The biggest hassle was trying to identify where the pipe ended up. I initially wanted to keep the pipe in as large a piece as possible. That doesn't work and you end up breaking it into a few smaller pieces as you prise it free from the plastic pipe clips as it passes upwards at the rear of the engine bay. At first I was only going to replace one pipe at the rear.. but I soon realised that every time you disturb one pipe another breaks or you need to bend another K junction to get access and another pipe fractures.. its as easy to take the car off the road for a couple of days .. maybe 3 and replace all of the pipes at once.
Much easier than planning on doing one, damaging another fixing that one, and whilst doing that, another starts leaking. Access to the ABS block is fairly easy as well as you'll probably have the LHM tank off .. just remember to put it somewhere you can't kick it!!
The one to avoid is any pipe going to no 15. I struggled with this manifold for days ending up breaking it apart. The access is horrible, especially if you'vr got big hands and fingers. In hindsight I should have just left this alone and bypassed it and I'd recommend anyone to do that.
Hope this helps John.

citronut
Posts: 10938
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
x 3

Re: Xantia II rear brakes, imbalance corrosion and, pipe lea

Post by citronut » 03 Nov 2014, 21:10

John
all those pipes going forward go through the couplers at No. 15 in the parts drawing,

when i patched Northern Mike i did not lower the sub frame, also the flaring tool in the ebay link is for 4.75 conventional pipe not 4,5,

so im not sure if it would be suitable for citroen pipe,

besides all that the pipe i patched was 3.5 and citroen type flares

hope this helps

c.morewood
donor 2018
Posts: 980
Joined: 05 Nov 2004, 15:38
x 19

Re: Xantia II rear brakes, imbalance corrosion and, pipe lea

Post by c.morewood » 03 Nov 2014, 21:17

I may be wrong Malcolm, But I think pipe no 13 is straight to the abs block from the rear bypassing the couplers manifold.

User avatar
John Plum
Posts: 567
Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 15:23
x 4

Xantia II rear brakes, imbalance corrosion and, pipe leak,

Post by John Plum » 03 Nov 2014, 21:25

Thanks guys, this is encouraging and useful.
Seems like I won't be able to do a 4.5mm patch, unless I find the right tool then.

Pipe No. 13 to abs block: what does it entail, to get to it there?

And, should I use the correct length of Kunifer from Eurocare, rather than Citroen pre-formed on steel?

citronut
Posts: 10938
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
x 3

Re: Xantia II rear brakes, imbalance corrosion and, pipe lea

Post by citronut » 03 Nov 2014, 21:50

c.morewood wrote:I may be wrong Malcolm, But I think pipe no 13 is straight to the abs block from the rear bypassing the couplers manifold.
sorry Chris
i thought John were talking about No. 9, did i miss something :? :roll: #-o :-D :wink:

User avatar
John Plum
Posts: 567
Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 15:23
x 4

Xantia II rear brakes, imbalance corrosion and, pipe leak,

Post by John Plum » 03 Nov 2014, 21:56

Yes its number 13. the rear brake supply pipe in 4.5mm

Is this Brake Hydraulic Block, taken from Service Citroen, what you mean by the ABS block? I take it that it's the unlisted thing on service Citroen's earlier diagram showing the brake piping, and the origin of pipe No. 13.

Image

It doesn't show pipe unions (I'm away from the car)… that should be easy to access, perhaps more difficult to route the piping, I guess.
Last edited by John Plum on 03 Nov 2014, 22:12, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
John Plum
Posts: 567
Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 15:23
x 4

Xantia II rear brakes, imbalance corrosion and, pipe leak,

Post by John Plum » 03 Nov 2014, 22:02

But I'm fixing a 4.5mm pipe :-)
Thanks both, for pointing out the discrepancy, that was an unposed question I had.
That's why I'm now considering replacing the whole pipe, front to back.
John

citronut
Posts: 10938
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
x 3

Re: Xantia II rear brakes, imbalance corrosion and, pipe lea

Post by citronut » 03 Nov 2014, 22:16

John Plum wrote:Yes its number 13. the rear brake supply pipe in 4.5mm

Is this Brake Hydraulic Block, taken from Service Citroen, what you mean by the ABS block? I take it that it's the unlisted thing on service Citroen's earlier diagram showing the brake piping, and the origin of pipe No. 13.

Image

It doesn't show pipe unions (I'm away from the car)… that should be easy to access, perhaps more difficult to route the piping, I guess.
the ABS block is in between No. 12 and 5 in drawing of the pipe layout, also were No. 13 starts from before heading to the rear axle
Last edited by citronut on 03 Nov 2014, 22:19, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
John Plum
Posts: 567
Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 15:23
x 4

Xantia II rear brakes, imbalance corrosion and, pipe leak,

Post by John Plum » 03 Nov 2014, 22:34

Ah that's what I thought Suoerloopy.

@citronut
Thanks, yes I understand abs block on pipe diagram. It occurred to me there may possibly be a different Abs manifold/block for no. 13 piping, different from what I know to be the Abs ECU block, as per 'Brake Hydraulic Block' diagram, with ECU connections, just forward of the LHM tank (especially because Citroen don't name the part, in pipe diagram and then in the Brake hydraulic Block diagram, they show no hydraulic connections to brakes!

So, it's the one and same block right?

User avatar
KennyW
Donor 2016
Posts: 1688
Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 22:22
x 25

Re: Xantia II rear brakes, imbalance corrosion and, pipe lea

Post by KennyW » 03 Nov 2014, 22:47

John,

Have a look at my Xantia Plumbing sticky at the beginning of the Citroen forum and you'll find most of the links there.
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=48254" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I had similar problems and ended up replacing 5 pipes.

Kenny
Last edited by KennyW on 03 Nov 2014, 22:49, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
John Plum
Posts: 567
Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 15:23
x 4

Re: Xantia II rear brakes, imbalance corrosion and, pipe lea

Post by John Plum » 03 Nov 2014, 22:48

Thanks Kenny. I missed that! Taking a look right away...

citronut
Posts: 10938
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
x 3

Re: Xantia II rear brakes, imbalance corrosion and, pipe lea

Post by citronut » 03 Nov 2014, 22:52

this came up with a goooogly search for 4.5mm kunifer

http://tinyurl.com/meqeeze" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

or these people are very easy to deal with,

http://www.franzoesische-klassiker-shop ... -per-meter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

or

http://www.burton2cvparts.com/remleidin ... anguage=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
John Plum
Posts: 567
Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 15:23
x 4

Xantia II rear brakes, imbalance corrosion and, pipe leak,

Post by John Plum » 03 Nov 2014, 23:37

I did that same search! But didn't know what to make of the suppliers. Thanks. I think I'll be asking Mike Lockward tomorrow about making a length up, as I can't do a repair on 4.5 mm due to unavailability of flare tools.
John

User avatar
John Plum
Posts: 567
Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 15:23
x 4

Xantia II rear brakes, imbalance corrosion and, pipe leak,

Post by John Plum » 04 Nov 2014, 11:40

Rang MIke Lockwood, Palaides and Eurocare this morning to safe if I can get part made up (4.5 x 3420mm kunifer with citroen flares): all three are out of 4.5mm pipe.

I could order a short length from http://www.burton2cvparts.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; in Germany, but haven't the flare tool.
Not sure if I can get car back on road for a good while. Any one locally got the flare tool, I could use? I'm in West London, right by the M40.
John
Last edited by John Plum on 04 Nov 2014, 16:40, edited 2 times in total.