Water preheater- need hose size
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- KennyW
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size
Chris,
That's a tough one when you can find the leak,in my situation I would start from the beginning as you have done work my way through it all.
I can't even suggest where it might be.
I assume you used new LHM seals on all pipework etc.
The only thing I can think of, is there any corroded pipes as slightest movement can cause them to rupture and that would result in a leak even pin hole size.
Kenny
That's a tough one when you can find the leak,in my situation I would start from the beginning as you have done work my way through it all.
I can't even suggest where it might be.
I assume you used new LHM seals on all pipework etc.
The only thing I can think of, is there any corroded pipes as slightest movement can cause them to rupture and that would result in a leak even pin hole size.
Kenny
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Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size
Maybe thats the answer Kenny
I replaced the anti sink sphere at the same time as the brake pipes.. maybe I should have done the anti sink pipe at the same time..and yes all the seals were new .. didn't see any point on skimping for a few pence..
I replaced the anti sink sphere at the same time as the brake pipes.. maybe I should have done the anti sink pipe at the same time..and yes all the seals were new .. didn't see any point on skimping for a few pence..
Chris
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size
Chris,
Good luck and it will be interesting where the problem lies.
Kenny
Good luck and it will be interesting where the problem lies.
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size
I am interested in fitting one of these pre-heaters as I remember discussions in the '50's reckoning that they are justified on fuel economy alone . I am wondering why the electric pre heater has to pump into the heater matrix first ? I would have thought that it is immaterial as long as the flow direction is maintained; the idea being to heat the block surely? Starting the engine will displace the heater matrix water very quickly so any heating effect is dependant on the temperature of the water in the block. I only suggest this in case it is easier to mount the heater in a different location as access would appear to be very tight from the posts. I haven't yet investigated so may well be talking out of somewhere else too !
Anyone care to comment?
Regards
Anyone care to comment?
Regards
Regards, Harry
2000 Nov Forte HDI 110 hatch in Wicked Red; currently SORN
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size
As far as I could make out there were 2 types of electric heater available. 1 was just an element and had to be mounted at the lowest possible point in the cooling system to allow the heated water to rise and heat all of the water by convection so the heather cuts off when the surrounding water reaches 50C and then as the water rises it cuts back in again.
The other, which I bought has a small fan which heats by circulating the hot water through the pipes (not the radiator) sothe heating is more constant with the heating only cutting out when all the water reacher 50C.. hopefully the temperature rise should be faster.
The advantage I see of heating the matrix first is that your windscreen gets defrosted with warmer air than if the heating element were farther away also the interior of the car will have some heat transfer before the engine is started and will be less likely to steam up..
I would imagine that the block will sap the heat out of the water as its being pumped round and will gradually rise to the temp of the water
I haven't got this fitted yet Harry .. still awaiting hoses..so its just my speculation at the moment.
The other, which I bought has a small fan which heats by circulating the hot water through the pipes (not the radiator) sothe heating is more constant with the heating only cutting out when all the water reacher 50C.. hopefully the temperature rise should be faster.
The advantage I see of heating the matrix first is that your windscreen gets defrosted with warmer air than if the heating element were farther away also the interior of the car will have some heat transfer before the engine is started and will be less likely to steam up..
I would imagine that the block will sap the heat out of the water as its being pumped round and will gradually rise to the temp of the water
I haven't got this fitted yet Harry .. still awaiting hoses..so its just my speculation at the moment.
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
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'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size
Chris, let us know how it goes, both the fitting and performance.
Regards
Regards
Regards, Harry
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size
Of course Harry.. nights at the moment, the hose has arived, so it'll be Sat before I get to fit... I'll take some photos and post them.
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size
Great Chris, will watch in anticipation!!!
Regards, Harry
2000 Nov Forte HDI 110 hatch in Wicked Red; currently SORN
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Re: Water preheater-Xantia fitting
Here we go.
I used a 5l container and a short length of hose pipe( make it just the length from rad to ground and it'll sit there nicely) to drain 4.5L of coolant. that was enough to work on the hoses without loosing more than a cupfull of coolant.
Follow the instructions here for refilling. I found it very useful..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I couldn't fit the heater inline where I wanted it to go, Just in front of the firewall or on top of the gearbox, There just wasn't enough room.
So I decided to cut the original hose and add extensions so that the pre heater would sit just in front of the intercooler/turbo hose. here are some photos.
The pre heater
With the airbox, turbopipe and blue connector out of the way you can just see where the thermostat pipe leaves the housing (behind the blue stub and the disconnected hose tucked away to the right of the stub, behind the throtle bracket)
I took the pipe off the thermostat housing and pulled it back to the firewall, where I cut off the final 90 degree bend.
I connected 1m of 16mm hose pipe with a straight connector ( 15mm copper pipe I had lying round) and fed it back through on its original route then under the throttle (using a short piece of longditudinally cut tube to protect the rad tube from chafing on the throttle bracket) I then routed it round the right side of the airfilter box
and over the top of radiator before it turns back on itsself infront of the turbo pipe.
The other pipe about 1/2M I joined to the bend cut off with a straight connector... connected the 90 degree back to the original thermastat housing, although facing forward rather than backwards as it had been, and routed the pipe under a bracket to the side of the engine above the gearbox before it emerges behind the turbo pipe.
This photo was an early attempt and the pipes were too short but it gives an idea of the route of the 2nd (lower) pipe.
This is the finished article showing the 1st pipe.
And finally I zip tied the preheater to the turbo pipe just to stop it moving too much and to keep it vertical
I haven't tested it yet as I had to run the engine to get all the air out of the system.. but it's supposed to be cold tomorrow morning....
I used a 5l container and a short length of hose pipe( make it just the length from rad to ground and it'll sit there nicely) to drain 4.5L of coolant. that was enough to work on the hoses without loosing more than a cupfull of coolant.
Follow the instructions here for refilling. I found it very useful..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I couldn't fit the heater inline where I wanted it to go, Just in front of the firewall or on top of the gearbox, There just wasn't enough room.
So I decided to cut the original hose and add extensions so that the pre heater would sit just in front of the intercooler/turbo hose. here are some photos.
The pre heater
With the airbox, turbopipe and blue connector out of the way you can just see where the thermostat pipe leaves the housing (behind the blue stub and the disconnected hose tucked away to the right of the stub, behind the throtle bracket)
I took the pipe off the thermostat housing and pulled it back to the firewall, where I cut off the final 90 degree bend.
I connected 1m of 16mm hose pipe with a straight connector ( 15mm copper pipe I had lying round) and fed it back through on its original route then under the throttle (using a short piece of longditudinally cut tube to protect the rad tube from chafing on the throttle bracket) I then routed it round the right side of the airfilter box
and over the top of radiator before it turns back on itsself infront of the turbo pipe.
The other pipe about 1/2M I joined to the bend cut off with a straight connector... connected the 90 degree back to the original thermastat housing, although facing forward rather than backwards as it had been, and routed the pipe under a bracket to the side of the engine above the gearbox before it emerges behind the turbo pipe.
This photo was an early attempt and the pipes were too short but it gives an idea of the route of the 2nd (lower) pipe.
This is the finished article showing the 1st pipe.
And finally I zip tied the preheater to the turbo pipe just to stop it moving too much and to keep it vertical
I haven't tested it yet as I had to run the engine to get all the air out of the system.. but it's supposed to be cold tomorrow morning....
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K
'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K
'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size
Looking good Chris
One time I guess you're really hoping it'll be cold
I'll be looking forward to the results...
I'm still waiting for some cold to test my fan heater. It's positively balmy down here today...
One time I guess you're really hoping it'll be cold
I'll be looking forward to the results...
I'm still waiting for some cold to test my fan heater. It's positively balmy down here today...
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size
So long as it is balmy and not barmy!CitroJim wrote:I'm still waiting for some cold to test my fan heater. It's positively balmy down here today...
EDIT: Sorry, I edited rather than quoted
Bit of both I think James
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size
Excellent blow by blow account and pics Chris - well done . Await results of full test . What arrangement have you made for 240v feed/plug etc?
Regards
Regards
Regards, Harry
2000 Nov Forte HDI 110 hatch in Wicked Red; currently SORN
2000 Mar Exclusive HDI hatch in Quartz; currently SORN
2013 C4 Picasso Excl E
Peugeot 207cc 1.6 Roland Garros
2000 Nov Forte HDI 110 hatch in Wicked Red; currently SORN
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Peugeot 207cc 1.6 Roland Garros
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size
Well test didn't work this morning.. I'm pretty sure I could hear the tiny impeller cavitating.. so there must still be some air in there.. I turned it off almost straight away..obviously need a bit of a run to get rid of the remaining air. So we're off to Aberdeen this afternoon and I'll post some results tomorrow.
Harry, If she's going to be left outside i.e nightshifts over the winter, I'll have a time switch plugged into the mains thenan extension lead and at the end of that I'll have a thermostat with a battery back up set to 5 degrees which will be under the partially closed bonnet plugged into the pre heater. So when the set time is right and the temperature is lower than 5C the preheater should operate. I think I'll do the same in the garage as its a detached garage with a huge gap at the top of the roller door.. it never will get below freezing in there. But to have the car warmed up on a cold morning and to know that the windows will not mist up as soon as I go out, will be very nice and well worth the 15p for half an hour of electricity.
Harry, If she's going to be left outside i.e nightshifts over the winter, I'll have a time switch plugged into the mains thenan extension lead and at the end of that I'll have a thermostat with a battery back up set to 5 degrees which will be under the partially closed bonnet plugged into the pre heater. So when the set time is right and the temperature is lower than 5C the preheater should operate. I think I'll do the same in the garage as its a detached garage with a huge gap at the top of the roller door.. it never will get below freezing in there. But to have the car warmed up on a cold morning and to know that the windows will not mist up as soon as I go out, will be very nice and well worth the 15p for half an hour of electricity.
Last edited by c.morewood on 23 Nov 2014, 20:40, edited 1 time in total.
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K
'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K
'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
- CitroJim
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size
That's going to be luxury Chris
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size
Chris,
Very interesting, have you bypassed the water preheater and straight to the matrix?
Kenny
Very interesting, have you bypassed the water preheater and straight to the matrix?
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.