Water preheater- need hose size

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Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by KennyW »

Chris,

That's a tough one when you can find the leak,in my situation I would start from the beginning as you have done work my way through it all.

I can't even suggest where it might be.

I assume you used new LHM seals on all pipework etc.

The only thing I can think of, is there any corroded pipes as slightest movement can cause them to rupture and that would result in a leak even pin hole size.

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Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by c.morewood »

Maybe thats the answer Kenny
I replaced the anti sink sphere at the same time as the brake pipes.. maybe I should have done the anti sink pipe at the same time..and yes all the seals were new .. didn't see any point on skimping for a few pence..
Chris
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by KennyW »

Chris,

Good luck and it will be interesting where the problem lies.

Kenny
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by harryp »

I am interested in fitting one of these pre-heaters as I remember discussions in the '50's reckoning that they are justified on fuel economy alone :wink:. I am wondering why the electric pre heater has to pump into the heater matrix first :?? I would have thought that it is immaterial as long as the flow direction is maintained; the idea being to heat the block surely? Starting the engine will displace the heater matrix water very quickly so any heating effect is dependant on the temperature of the water in the block. I only suggest this in case it is easier to mount the heater in a different location as access would appear to be very tight from the posts. I haven't yet investigated so may well be talking out of somewhere else too :shock:!
Anyone care to comment?
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by c.morewood »

As far as I could make out there were 2 types of electric heater available. 1 was just an element and had to be mounted at the lowest possible point in the cooling system to allow the heated water to rise and heat all of the water by convection so the heather cuts off when the surrounding water reaches 50C and then as the water rises it cuts back in again.
The other, which I bought has a small fan which heats by circulating the hot water through the pipes (not the radiator) sothe heating is more constant with the heating only cutting out when all the water reacher 50C.. hopefully the temperature rise should be faster.
The advantage I see of heating the matrix first is that your windscreen gets defrosted with warmer air than if the heating element were farther away also the interior of the car will have some heat transfer before the engine is started and will be less likely to steam up..
I would imagine that the block will sap the heat out of the water as its being pumped round and will gradually rise to the temp of the water
I haven't got this fitted yet Harry .. still awaiting hoses..so its just my speculation at the moment.
Chris
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by harryp »

Chris, let us know how it goes, both the fitting and performance.
Regards
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by c.morewood »

Of course Harry.. nights at the moment, the hose has arived, so it'll be Sat before I get to fit... I'll take some photos and post them.
Chris
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by harryp »

Great Chris, will watch in anticipation!!!
Regards, Harry

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Re: Water preheater-Xantia fitting

Post by c.morewood »

Here we go.
I used a 5l container and a short length of hose pipe( make it just the length from rad to ground and it'll sit there nicely) to drain 4.5L of coolant. that was enough to work on the hoses without loosing more than a cupfull of coolant.
Follow the instructions here for refilling. I found it very useful..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I couldn't fit the heater inline where I wanted it to go, Just in front of the firewall or on top of the gearbox, There just wasn't enough room.
So I decided to cut the original hose and add extensions so that the pre heater would sit just in front of the intercooler/turbo hose. here are some photos.
Image
The pre heater
Image
With the airbox, turbopipe and blue connector out of the way you can just see where the thermostat pipe leaves the housing (behind the blue stub and the disconnected hose tucked away to the right of the stub, behind the throtle bracket)
I took the pipe off the thermostat housing and pulled it back to the firewall, where I cut off the final 90 degree bend.
Image
I connected 1m of 16mm hose pipe with a straight connector ( 15mm copper pipe I had lying round) and fed it back through on its original route then under the throttle (using a short piece of longditudinally cut tube to protect the rad tube from chafing on the throttle bracket) I then routed it round the right side of the airfilter box
Image
and over the top of radiator before it turns back on itsself infront of the turbo pipe.
The other pipe about 1/2M I joined to the bend cut off with a straight connector... connected the 90 degree back to the original thermastat housing, although facing forward rather than backwards as it had been, and routed the pipe under a bracket to the side of the engine above the gearbox before it emerges behind the turbo pipe.
Image
This photo was an early attempt and the pipes were too short but it gives an idea of the route of the 2nd (lower) pipe.
Image
This is the finished article showing the 1st pipe.

And finally I zip tied the preheater to the turbo pipe just to stop it moving too much and to keep it vertical
Image

I haven't tested it yet as I had to run the engine to get all the air out of the system.. but it's supposed to be cold tomorrow morning....
Chris
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by CitroJim »

Looking good Chris :-D

One time I guess you're really hoping it'll be cold :wink:

I'll be looking forward to the results...

I'm still waiting for some cold to test my fan heater. It's positively balmy down here today...
Jim

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Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

CitroJim wrote:I'm still waiting for some cold to test my fan heater. It's positively balmy down here today...
So long as it is balmy and not barmy!

EDIT: Sorry, I edited rather than quoted :oops:

Bit of both I think James :roll:
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Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by harryp »

Excellent blow by blow account and pics Chris - well done :) . Await results of full test :wink: . What arrangement have you made for 240v feed/plug etc?
Regards
Regards, Harry

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Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by c.morewood »

Well test didn't work this morning.. I'm pretty sure I could hear the tiny impeller cavitating.. so there must still be some air in there.. I turned it off almost straight away..obviously need a bit of a run to get rid of the remaining air. So we're off to Aberdeen this afternoon and I'll post some results tomorrow.
Harry, If she's going to be left outside i.e nightshifts over the winter, I'll have a time switch plugged into the mains thenan extension lead and at the end of that I'll have a thermostat with a battery back up set to 5 degrees which will be under the partially closed bonnet plugged into the pre heater. So when the set time is right and the temperature is lower than 5C the preheater should operate. I think I'll do the same in the garage as its a detached garage with a huge gap at the top of the roller door.. it never will get below freezing in there. But to have the car warmed up on a cold morning and to know that the windows will not mist up as soon as I go out, will be very nice and well worth the 15p for half an hour of electricity. :-)
Last edited by c.morewood on 23 Nov 2014, 20:40, edited 1 time in total.
Chris
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'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
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'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K

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Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by CitroJim »

That's going to be luxury Chris :-D
Jim

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Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by KennyW »

Chris,

Very interesting, have you bypassed the water preheater and straight to the matrix?

Kenny
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