Water preheater- need hose size

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Online
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49454
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6137
Contact:

Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by CitroJim »

miked wrote:Sorry for interrupting, I can't help with any advice.

Just wanted to say I'm very interested in how this works out for you. My HDi Xsara has no auxiliary heater (glow plug type or diesel powered eberspacher), and I have to admit that in the depths of winter I usually start the car 10 minutes before I set off on my 5 minute drive to work.
Same problem here with my C1..

I've just bought an electric fan heater that plugs into the fag lighter but if this fails to cut the mustard then the electric pre-heater may be the answer to my prayers so watching with great interest...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
User avatar
KennyW
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2498
Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
Location: Letham, Fife
My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 131

Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by KennyW »

Chris,

Water preheater is circled in Red which has 4 wires running somewhere :lol: , Hose No 7 runs from the thermostat housing and this has a small bleed valve fitted above it for bleeding the system.

I assume your placing this new heater between the thermo stat and the preheater or just remove the preheater and place your new heater there.

Excuse my ignorance but where is the Eberspacher located or is this only on 110 HDi.

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Online
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49454
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6137
Contact:

Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by CitroJim »

Kenny, the Erberspacher lives under the nearside wing...

To easily tell if one is fitted look under the bumper for the end of it's exhaust.

Only fitted to late 110HDi Exclusives as far as I know...

Unless they were an option on lesser HDis
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
User avatar
KennyW
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2498
Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
Location: Letham, Fife
My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 131

Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by KennyW »

Jim,

I suspect it was not fitted to my 90 HDi year 1999. Thanks Jim, now to sort out my heating problem :-D

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
c.morewood
Donor 2023
Posts: 1039
Joined: 05 Nov 2004, 14:38
Location: Kemnay, Nr Aberdeen, United Kingdom
My Cars: '00 Xantia 110 bhp Hdi SX Estate 65K "W"
'99 Xantia 110 bhp Hdi SX Estate 310K SORN "V"
'98 Xantia 1.9TD SX Estate 150K Sold "T"
x 44

Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by c.morewood »

Mines is only an SX Kenny so no pre-installed heater.
Mike, yes I believe you're correct about the pump and the radiator.
I'll see how things go on Friday..
What is the thing with wires coming out of it on the firewall attached to the rh pipe (as you're looking at it) is it a thermometer to tell the fan when to speed up when in auto mode?
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K

'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
c.morewood
Donor 2023
Posts: 1039
Joined: 05 Nov 2004, 14:38
Location: Kemnay, Nr Aberdeen, United Kingdom
My Cars: '00 Xantia 110 bhp Hdi SX Estate 65K "W"
'99 Xantia 110 bhp Hdi SX Estate 310K SORN "V"
'98 Xantia 1.9TD SX Estate 150K Sold "T"
x 44

Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by c.morewood »

Unfortunately I failed miserably today at getting the pre heater fitted....however I managed the coolant (first time) fine.
I hadn't appreciated just how much the gearchange assembly intrudes into the space ontop of the gearbox.
I'm going to have to rethink where the heater can go as there's not enough room beside the airbox nor infront of the firewall, it'd probably be to hot there anyway. I'm thinking another length of hose to bring it forward to just behind the radiator this would involve jointing the original pipe, as I can't get a grip on to the other spring clip on the firewall end to release that end, at least not without taking the rocker cover off.
I'll have to sit and think about this one.
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K

'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
Hell Razor5543
Donor 2023
Posts: 13714
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
Location: Reading
My Cars: C5 Mk2 VTX+ estate.
x 2990

Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

It could be worth researching where the Erberspacher heater is fitted, and see if your unit could fit into the same space.
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR

C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
Online
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49454
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6137
Contact:

Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by CitroJim »

Hell Razor5543 wrote:It could be worth researching where the Erberspacher heater is fitted, and see if your unit could fit into the same space.
Under the nearside front wing but the problem is the Eberspacher equipped cars have a special set of steel pipes to reach the location...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
c.morewood
Donor 2023
Posts: 1039
Joined: 05 Nov 2004, 14:38
Location: Kemnay, Nr Aberdeen, United Kingdom
My Cars: '00 Xantia 110 bhp Hdi SX Estate 65K "W"
'99 Xantia 110 bhp Hdi SX Estate 310K SORN "V"
'98 Xantia 1.9TD SX Estate 150K Sold "T"
x 44

Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by c.morewood »

It can't be installed wherre the Erbespacher goes as it can only cope with a very small head of water.
It's so frustrating..its such a small bit of equipment.. but it has to installed vertically and the power cord.(kettle lead) uses up some space at the bottom. and you can't install it in a hot environment.. I guess it might melt if it was too close to the exhaust or turbo.. I'll buy 1m of the 16mm radiator pipe and extend the existing pipe to just behind the radiator and put it there. Is it possible to form the straight rad pipe into a 90 degree bend? or is that done at the factory?
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K

'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
User avatar
KennyW
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2498
Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
Location: Letham, Fife
My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 131

Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by KennyW »

Chris,

Could you remove the preheater and place your pump there. I know it is awkward but I think it is the only position suitable /possible.

I'm going to have change the piping leading to and from the matrix as my preheater as developed a leak again.

I will have to remove the engine cover, the turbo inlet pipe and couple of pipes to fit. A PITA but it will cure all the problems.

Jim, Have you found the wiring diagram relating to the preheater as it would be interesting to have but not essential. Otherwise I'll try and trace the wiring back.

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Online
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49454
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6137
Contact:

Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by CitroJim »

KennyW wrote: Jim, Have you found the wiring diagram relating to the preheater as it would be interesting to have but not essential. Otherwise I'll try and trace the wiring back.
Thanks for reminding me Kenny :) I've just found it... I had trouble finding my HDi diagrams but have now...

Hopefully and fingers crossed I'll have a grading certificate to scan later today and then I'll scan up the heater diagrams and post them...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
c.morewood
Donor 2023
Posts: 1039
Joined: 05 Nov 2004, 14:38
Location: Kemnay, Nr Aberdeen, United Kingdom
My Cars: '00 Xantia 110 bhp Hdi SX Estate 65K "W"
'99 Xantia 110 bhp Hdi SX Estate 310K SORN "V"
'98 Xantia 1.9TD SX Estate 150K Sold "T"
x 44

Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by c.morewood »

quote]

Same problem here with my C1..

I've just bought an electric fan heater that plugs into the fag lighter but if this fails to cut the mustard then the electric pre-heater may be the answer to my prayers so watching with great interest...[/quote]

Jim, I used a mains fan heater with a thermostat to warm up the cabin, for many years.. helps get rid of the frost and stops the inside steaming up as you drive away.. obviously won't benefit the engine .. which is why I'm trying the pre heater.

Kenny I don't have an Erbespacher mine is only an SX and the Erbespacher was only fitted to Exclusives.. some at that.
I had another look this morning.. I think its going to mount on to the turbo pipe, with a cable tie, just behind the radiator.
Wed morning is the next chance I'll get.
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K

'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
Online
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49454
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6137
Contact:

Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by CitroJim »

Kenny,

Here's the wiring diagrams for the glow plug type auxiliary heater:

Circuit Diagram

Harnesses

Locations

Hope they prove useful :-D

Chris, I have used a mains fan heater in the past but it's a bit of a job to run a cable out to where my car is parked and plus the little 12V one can stay in the car and live in one of the C1's many little cubbyholes...

Still waiting for frosty weather :roll:
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
User avatar
KennyW
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2498
Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
Location: Letham, Fife
My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 131

Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by KennyW »

Jim,

Thanks for those diagrams, as I suspected they( glow plug heaters) were connected to the fuses in the passenger bay. I love the location diagram brilliant =D> .

Changed Matrix hoses sat/sun. There has been a change in the hose set up but it does not affect the set up. Will get back about my heating problem which appears to still be ongoing.

Chris, did you ever get the hose No 7 or 9 problem solved as I have a spare if you require it.

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
c.morewood
Donor 2023
Posts: 1039
Joined: 05 Nov 2004, 14:38
Location: Kemnay, Nr Aberdeen, United Kingdom
My Cars: '00 Xantia 110 bhp Hdi SX Estate 65K "W"
'99 Xantia 110 bhp Hdi SX Estate 310K SORN "V"
'98 Xantia 1.9TD SX Estate 150K Sold "T"
x 44

Re: Water preheater- need hose size

Post by c.morewood »

Yes thanks Kenny .. all the rear pipes are cunifer now except the anti sink one.. I'll get to that one when I do the front hoses in the spring. I do however have a tiny leak somewhere ... just meaning that the stop light is lit for 20 seconds while the pressure builds up.. I can't figure out where its coming from .....I've lain on my back for over an hour examining and tightening all the joints .. even replaced a perfectly good (new) n/s brake pipe as the drip was forming at the low point where the pipe does a u turn. It seems that the tiny leak allows the LHM to migrate to the rear of the subframe .. then it works its way along the bottom of the subframe to the bracket holding the n/s brake pipe and drips off there.. well it doesn't drip as its so small it gets blown away before the drip gets big enough.
Back to the subject.. Wednesday morning looks good, if the coolant pipe arrives, to fit the pre heater.. fingers crossed.
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K

'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
Post Reply