very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

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MikeT
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by MikeT » 31 Aug 2014, 09:42

jma wrote:Thanks for your kind comments..I live in Cheltenham, Gloucester. Feeling duped by the guy who so said repaired and fully tested the head. Going to call him on Monday and see what he says. The gasket was the thickest 3 notch version...also recommended by the head specialist. Do you think its time to give up and take the head off, shouldn't take too long to do I guess. Question..any other way of telling the valves are operating without removing the head? I have got a compression tester however its adaptor is too small (std spark plug type). Rest day tomorrow, head off Monday me thinks. Cheers everyon and will keep you up to speed.
I suggested early in the thread to suspect compression and it's still looking a probable cause so I would further suggest finding a friendly garage that would do it for you so you can be sure.

As for which thickness gasket they used, it's not up for debate (at least for "professional" garages imo), the piston clearance should have been measured after a skim and the correct thickness gasket chosen. If the head wasn't skimmed, the same thickness gasket as the original should have been used.

Either way, having not bothered to measure clearance myself and just opted for the thickest repair gasket to fit on mine, I can attest it shouldn't cause the white smoke of "boiled" diesel, it's just bad practice to guess gasket thickness (lower compression = less power/engine efficiency). Something else is amiss.

RichardW
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by RichardW » 31 Aug 2014, 10:51

AFAIK the gasket thickness is only determined by the piston protrusion above the block, and therefore it's irrelevant whether the head has been skimmed or not - it's a flat head anyway. So unless the block has been decked, gasket thickness should be the same as came off. It might be worth checking in this case that both the cam and crank woodruff keys are in place and not damaged.

oscar
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by oscar » 31 Aug 2014, 13:38

Hi well a "Professional" is only someone that get's paid for there services not a great acronym that your going to get what you paid for though unless somewhere that is really well known to do the job right.

you have some of the best helping you here as had many years under bonnets working on said engine not any old job like garages do with that will do.

As been said it sure looks like those 2 cylinders are faulty if when crack injectors and no response unless no fuel getting to them but unlikely as smoke there which i would say is from those two not getting enough compression to burn it
Did they check for cracks and seats sitting correctly as not unknown for head to suffer cracks/seat damage along with guide problems if valves bend from contact.

If you have head off now set crank in right place then find right peg/place so basics are right then pump then once placing head on can if need be turn crank off mark and repin as will know for sure on right spot where bolt goes bellhouse end as always a bit like fishing in the dark till know for sure!

You did also check that you got woodruff key to stay in while replacing pulley i know sounds daft but can drop out i used a thin wire to probe to check.

then only other thing if clearances are too tight on those valves on cylinders that running right.

The spanner you need for under pump is a crescent type but i also made a modded one out of a 13mm flatish ring (was old ratchet broke type) welded up then ground down half thickness then cut handle down so fits in slot below pump over nut one thing can do is dab of glue type on washer so sticks to nut then use that spanner to place over stud then can do up easily or easier i should say!

While on here if anyone needs older cam pulley wheel(one that don't crack?)one with holes not a web like one on here i have one along with good set of injectors and turbo

jma
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by jma » 31 Aug 2014, 22:58

Can't thank you guys enough for sparing the time trying to help get this old girl back on the road. So many people are now starting to wonder why I'm even bother with it. (That includes my wife!)...its now become a personal challenge. Ok...when my wife is next out for the day I got to take the head off and check the cam and crank keys are in place...sure they are though. Set the crank at 90deg off tdc and check the valves operate freely. Ps. Wife is not that bad but complaining about the sink oil stains and oil smell in house...oh well. Chat soon. Jeff

Hell Razor5543
NOT Alistair or Simon
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 31 Aug 2014, 23:03

You might want to use a citrus based cleaner for the oil smell. When my Mum works on her engine (she lives on a narrow boat, and does the basic maintenance on the engine) she uses it afterwards to clean her hands and remove the stink of diesel. She doesn't much like the scent of oranges much, but it is better than diesel and oil.

citroenxm
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by citroenxm » 01 Sep 2014, 00:32

oscar wrote:
While on here if anyone needs older cam pulley wheel(one that don't crack?)one with holes not a web like one on here i have one along with good set of injectors and turbo
Ive got a couple of complete heads with these pullys and a few broken cams with them on.. ive got one last complete engine with laminated head gasket on it too complete ready to fit.. all bloody sorts up here.. but no one seems to want..

macplaxton
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by macplaxton » 01 Sep 2014, 01:40

citroenxm wrote:all bloody sorts up here.. but no one seems to want..
XUD9? I may want, got a BX to fix, will do a thread later...

citroenxm
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by citroenxm » 01 Sep 2014, 02:53

Yup xud9te complete.. turbo .. inlet.. bosch non keypad pump .. pipe work to make front mounted intercooler connections.. front mounted intercoolers even..

milage? Irellevent.. I know for a fact it does not use oil. Hence keeping it..

macplaxton
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by macplaxton » 01 Sep 2014, 03:22

Ahh...this is a non-turbo auto sloth. Would like to keep it standard.

citronut
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by citronut » 01 Sep 2014, 07:57

is there any possibility that you cranked the engine over on first assembling it/the cam belt maybe out of synch ??????,

jma
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Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 19:46

Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by jma » 03 Sep 2014, 22:45

Hi all..every time I fitted and re-fitted the T belt I pegged the engine and when I remove the pegs/bolts I rotated the engine a couple of turns by hand to ensure no mechanical clash. Q. Let's just say I was one tooth out, would that be enough to damage the valves again? The reasons why I say this is that I had issues with the belt being 1/2 tooth out (see my earlier post) thanks for your comment citronut. UPDATE--I visited hackers (person who re worked the head) I mentioned I am having no luck with the engine and tried adjusting the engine timing as recommended, he made no initial comment. I went on to ask him if he replaced the valve guides, he said they are fine and did not need doing. kept calm and said Im going to have to remove the head again. He remarked just bring it in and I will re-check it. Here we go again..It's going to cost me another 60 quid to do this, plus now getting grief from the missus...saying its not the car head that needs testing. Anyhow I have been given one more week to get my lovely xantia a heart beat or take it to the car grave yard :-( what do you think? How about I post photos of every stage of the re-build so you can stop me if you see an error. Cheers all. Jeff

citroenxm
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by citroenxm » 03 Sep 2014, 22:56

One tooth out on an xud and they do not start on the button and no one tooth out wont hurt the valves.

your starting procedure in your video is not a "one tooth out" symptom .. its lack of compression. The cylinders need a compression test for ultimate decision as to whats going on. Werent you offered a compression tester to try this?

macplaxton
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Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:09

Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by macplaxton » 03 Sep 2014, 23:04

One tooth out shouldn't kill it (but if it does run, it runs like crap) Two teeth might.

To complete a cycle, you turn the engine over two complete revolutions. I usually do four complete rotations to double check. (Many moons ago I made a hash of setting the timing chain on a double overhead cam Kawasaki motorcycle, so I always double check and sometimes more)

Anyway, there are others here with far more diesel and XUD experience than me to guide you.

jma
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by jma » 04 Sep 2014, 18:49

Ok...compression test it is. Have got a standard compression tester that fits spark plug holes and was going to make an adaptor to fit the glow plug port (if needs be). gauge reads up 300 psi. Is this suitable? Regards. Jeff

macplaxton
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by macplaxton » 04 Sep 2014, 23:19

Given that it's a diesel with a 23:1 or so compression ratio, the maths tells me me that the pressure is going to be over 300psi, so you'd best borrow a more manly gauge.