very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

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jma
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Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 19:46

Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by jma » 29 Aug 2014, 13:15

Just spoke to hackers (head recon person) valves set to 0.15 and 0.13?

citronut
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by citronut » 29 Aug 2014, 13:31

citroenxm wrote: Also sounds like a dry bearing on a roller there too some strange noise there.
i thought the noise is a bit like an over tight cam belt

citroenxm
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by citroenxm » 29 Aug 2014, 17:15

citronut wrote:
citroenxm wrote: Also sounds like a dry bearing on a roller there too some strange noise there.
i thought the noise is a bit like an over tight cam belt
That doesnt happen on xud engines like newer engines malc. The xud was designed to use a dead tight belt unlike newer hdi engines etc that can whine badly..

jma
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Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 19:46

Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by jma » 29 Aug 2014, 22:09

This is now driving me crazy...decided to refit the timing
belt strictly to the haynes manual, that is lock up the
engine, cam and flywheel...done. fit belt working from the
crank pulley - idler - pump and finally cam sprocket, hold
the tensioner off until you have done all sprocket / pulleys.
Now this is fine until you find that the belt is half a tooth
out on the pulley (see photo) so do I a) try to loosen the
8mm locking pins to allow it to reach over the tooth or b)
leave the belt with an inch of slack between the cam and
pump? I have taken photos showing how I locked the engine up
using 8mm bolts and belt 1/2 tooth out.

Photos...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l33zwp08gmiod ... 8.jpg?dl=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yu7hb8lxhbdsg ... 9.jpg?dl=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v4rcde6buo3hx ... 1.jpg?dl=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.dropbox.com/s/54uk0lpl794pi ... 2.jpg?dl=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

macplaxton
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Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:09

Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by macplaxton » 29 Aug 2014, 23:06

jma wrote:Image
IMAG0561 by jma, (rehosted on macplaxton's) Flickr
As an aside to the problems, is that white hair-line to the right of the thumb/left of the sprocket spoke with five dots a crack :?:

jma
Posts: 17
Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 19:46

Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by jma » 30 Aug 2014, 08:11

Thanks Macplaxton....well spotted and going to make this the first thing to check this morning. Another day on the xantia!!

citronut
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Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by citronut » 30 Aug 2014, 08:45

i might be wrong here but without me having a picy of the end of an XUD lump in front of me, showing all pulleys/sprockets and pegging points,

i think you have the cam pegged of in the wrong hole,
so if im correct you need to rotate the crank 1 full turn then with no belt fitted set and lock of the pump sprocket,

although if you have run the engine with the cam 180 degrees out you will have bent some valves

somewhere on this site there was a cam belt end on shot of an XUD engine

macplaxton
Posts: 168
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:09

Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by macplaxton » 30 Aug 2014, 09:04

citronut wrote:somewhere on this site there was a cam belt end on shot of an XUD engine
This one?

Image
From here: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =4&t=38826" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citroenxm
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by citroenxm » 30 Aug 2014, 09:37

You can only peg an xud in one place! And it is a 8mm bolt screw in not a push in pin like later engines..

an xud wont even entertain going if any cam or crank timing is out.

I think its a problem with the head. If the valves were bent this surely would of caused guide damage. Did they change the valve guides too?

There is nothing complex about the xud.. the crank cant be 180 deg out. Its pinned at tdc end of. Timing position is determind by cam shaft position and that can only sit in one position.

I think there is still a head problem here.! Ive seen a good few and worked on them too..

jgra1
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by jgra1 » 30 Aug 2014, 10:35

ahh my old picture :) brings back memories

hope you get this sorted Jeff, seems a bit of a nightmare 2 weeks..
I presume the 3rd injector (from flywheel) has its little black plug connected to the loom near the HP pump?
I would do a compression check.. I can send you my tester but probably not until Monday..
if compression is ok, then as Paul said earlier on I would want to try a cheap spare pump before going further.. assuming you are happy with the timing..
the new pump will need to be de armoured first from memory.

John

edit
that does look like a hairline crack... and definitely something wrong with the belt sitting on top of the teeth like that..hmm

edit 2
i dont see how the belt can fit some teeth and not others.. odd.

edit 3
a spare pump maybe, and a spare sprocket

jma
Posts: 17
Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 19:46

Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by jma » 30 Aug 2014, 17:23

Hi, and thanks for your comments. Working intensively on the xantia again today. The first thing i did this morning was check the cam sprocket for a crack. Turns out to be a screwdriver scratch enhanced by the camera flash. Second thing I did was to refit and re-check the timing belt. Difficult to start and still Smokey as anything. Next step was to loosen the diesel pump timing bolts, found these very tricky to access however done. Adjusted the timing on the fly and took video for you to see. In short engine speed changes slightly but still smokes like mad. I starting to get a gut feeling that the head has still got issues. I also don't think "Hackers" in Cheltenham replaced the value sleeves. Will check on Monday.

jma
Posts: 17
Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 19:46

Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by jma » 30 Aug 2014, 17:24

The timing video. https://www.dropbox.com/s/76m7lbtwjh5pt ... 4.mp4?dl=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citroenxm
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by citroenxm » 30 Aug 2014, 18:40

Well you have exhausted ALL posibilities..

One thing, did you swap the gasket like for like? IE: if a three notch gasket came off did you put a 3 notch back on??

Im sorry to think that the head IS deafenatley at fault here now... NO DOUBT!

I had an S2 1,9 TD for a short while with the 3rd injector with lift sensor, and even with that disconnected it continued to work as normal.

I too think you problem IS the head. Sorry.. but it just has to be. A garage can swear what they like they have done things, but they dont always. Shame you cant take the whole car to them and tell them, you say timing?? Then YOU DO IT THEN! :wink:

Where in the country are you?? Ive got a complete XUD in Very good order sitting in a shed waiting for a car.. :lol:

jma
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Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 19:46

Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by jma » 30 Aug 2014, 20:48

Thanks for your kind comments..I live in Cheltenham, Gloucester. Feeling duped by the guy who so said repaired and fully tested the head. Going to call him on Monday and see what he says. The gasket was the thickest 3 notch version...also recommended by the head specialist. Do you think its time to give up and take the head off, shouldn't take too long to do I guess. Question..any other way of telling the valves are operating without removing the head? I have got a compression tester however its adaptor is too small (std spark plug type). Rest day tomorrow, head off Monday me thinks. Cheers everyon and will keep you up to speed.

citroenxm
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by citroenxm » 30 Aug 2014, 20:57

Two questions to raise... The valve might move in the guides, BUT are they loose in the guide tube??

With the rocker cover off, you should be able to get a Flat Blade screw driver between the cam and valve lifter Cap under the cam.. you can then lever each valve to see if they open and close freely. But, to me, its a Head Related problem.

A gasket thinkness ONLY needs altering IF the head has been Skimmed due to over heating! So if you took a three notch off then a three should go on, UNLESS it had a skim then a 4 notch would be needed..

IF you took a three notch gasket off and the head was not skimmed, then a two should of gone back on.