Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Stickyfinger »

I used one of the plastic trim tools I got for a couple of quid on ebay...

superloopy
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by superloopy »

Keep it up Simon ... i'm learning [emoji6]

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Mandrake »

Ok Job done. :)

Once I got the radiator disconnected the job was relatively straight forward if time consuming. I ended up not hose pipe flushing or trying to drain the block - it's fairly urgent to get the job finished this weekend and I wasn't able to find the block drain points so decided not to bother.

Besides, the coolant that came out was absolutely spotlessly clean, clear and turquoise coloured, I was expecting to find all kinds of corrosion and crud that I've seen in radiators in years gone by but there was none at all, even on the radiator joints. It looked like it could have been changed last week...The only corrosion anywhere was some green and white corrosion in the fins and along the edge of the radiator where it sprung a leak...

I filled up with the mineral free water on its own first and it only took about 6 litres out of 10 so clearly there is still another 4 litres in the block and heater matrix. I let it warm up until the fans came on, checked for leaks, drained it down again and repeated with the proper coolant. I've been for a drive to buy petrol and all seems well. =D> Bleeding the cooling on the V6 is dead easy - I did it twice in a row without any problems whatsoever.

I did make a somewhat horrifying discovery along the way though - the low coolant level sensor in the expansion chamber doesn't work at all! #-o Had I not noticed the coolant leak on the driveway soon after it occurred the results could have been disastrous as I would not have been alerted to a low coolant level while driving. :shock: My first sign of trouble would have been an overheating engine and by then the coolant would have been gone, probably along with the head gasket... #-o

I found the wire clip on the plug seems to be missing, which allowed the plug to fall most of the way out:

Image

This is very strange because I replaced the coolant expansion bottle a year or so ago and I don't remember the clip missing ? :?

Secondly, even when I plugged it back in and tested it with an empty coolant bottle I found it still doesn't work! #-o No warning on the dashboard. Has anyone had this coolant level sensor fail before ? Is there any circuitry in the sensor ? The cable is only two wires and measuring it shows it has 12v supplied with the sensor disconnected so I'm assuming their is some sensor circuitry inside that measures the conductivity of the water and then pulls the 12v low:

Image

I'll have a look in the usual places like ebay for a new level sensor but does anyone know where I can get a wire clip from for the plug ? Without it the plug won't stay in. It's a 3 pin plug and is the type with a wire clip that has to be removed with a screw driver, not the spring loaded type.

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by RichardW »

Holy cow, it had better have some cleverness in it!!

Part Number Description Price excl. VAT Price incl. VAT Total incl. VAT Selection
00001306C0 LEVEL DETECTOR 48.38 GBP 58.06 GBP 58.06 GBP

Also appears to be used in Berlingo, Partner, 206 and 307 - so one of those might yield a spare, and also a clip for the connector.

Good work on the rad!

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Stickyfinger »

PM me your address mate, I have the remains of the loom from the V6 I scrapped in the garage so will have a clip if you cannot find one close....I do not have a spare sensor however.
.

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Mandrake »

RichardW wrote:Holy cow, it had better have some cleverness in it!!

Part Number Description Price excl. VAT Price incl. VAT Total incl. VAT Selection
00001306C0 LEVEL DETECTOR 48.38 GBP 58.06 GBP 58.06 GBP
Ouch! :shock:

At that price I better be a bit more certain that the sensor is actually the cause of the problem! 8-)

I don't have the wiring diagrams for the S1 V6 that covers the level warning sensor, so I pulled out the S2 V6 wiring diagram to have a look, assuming that this part would be the same:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/782 ... nciple.pdf

Apparently not! The sensor in question is 4010 which can be seen to go directly to the coolant temperature warning light and to the stop light via a diode. And it can be seen that it is a pull down design where the sensor would earth pin 2 to turn the warning lights on.

But wait - there is no pin 2 on the plug on mine, the contact is not fitted in the plug and there are only two wires coming out of the cable! :shock: #-o Although it's a 3 pin plug only pins 1 and 3 are fitted, which according to that diagram (assuming S1 and S2 are the same here) is ground and power, but pin 2 is supposed to be the output signal going to the dashboard and is completely missing... what the ????

I don't suppose anyone could post up the "Engine Coolant and Other information" diagram from the driver information section for a Series 1 V6 to see if it differs from the S2 diagram above ?

Because at the moment I'm mystified. I can't see why this would be different between S1 and S2, and why they would reduce it from 3 wires to 2. Where the wires go into the back of the plug looks a bit suspicious too, almost as if someone has tampered with it.

Can anyone confirm whether their S1 V6 has two wires or 3 wires on this sensor ? I'm going to try connecting a resistor across the two pins that are present tomorrow to see whether pin 3 really is just a 12v supply, or whether it is a sensor supply that is intended to be pulled down as a signal line as well. (If the latter, the light should light on the dashboard if I connect something like 100 ohms)

I wonder if the part number for this sensor differs between S1 and S2 - if it doesn't, I'm puzzled...

It is possible to do it this way, I just don't understand why they would change it to 3 wires later, and until I confirm how it should be I can't know for sure whether this expensive sensor is working or not...

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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Mandrake »

Found a second hand one here for £13.50, although I'm not sure yet whether I do in fact need one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PEUGEOT-CITRO ... 3acdcad974

If the first number after PSA matches does it matter if the second number below it does not, is that second number a manufacturing date or batch code or something ?

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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Mandrake »

Ok I've been out doing some testing an I'm even more baffled than before.

As can be seen in the picture below, the plug clearly has the middle pin missing and there are only two wires coming out of the trunking:

Image

So I then set about figuring out what those two wires are. A quick check with an ohm meter confirmed one of them is a direct ground. To test the other wire to see if it is a normal 12v supply feed or whether it is a control feed that comes via the warning light I connected my automotive test light to the 12v pin.

The cold resistance of this relatively large test bulb is 15 ohms, if this wire was a control wire to light the warning light on the dashboard you would expect the warning light to light and the voltage on the wire to drop well below 12v, probably down to just a couple of volts. On the other hand if its only a 12v supply wire the voltage would not drop much at all and the light won't come on.

So i connected my test light (which lit up) and the voltage supplied only dropped by about 0.1v, and the warning light did not light.

So as far as I can see the two wires going to the plug are just 12v supply and ground with absolutely no way to light the warning light without a 3rd wire! :shock: [-X

Sorry to ask you for more diagrams Jim, but I'd be grateful if you were able to post the 3 wiring diagrams (circuit, location and routing) for the coolant warning light for a S1 V6 - the RPO is 7515 just in case it is near some kind of change over. There's no hurry whatsoever so don't fret about it, just when you get a chance. I've apparently been driving the car with no working low coolant warning light for the last 2 years anyway. :rofl2: At least now that I'm aware of it I will be checking the level manually before any long trip.

Without a S1 circuit diagram to show conclusively how this should be wired I just cannot see how it could ever have been working, and its quite likely there is nothing wrong with the sensor at all!

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by xantia_v6 »

My Xantia also has only the two wires, but the XM has 3!

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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Mandrake »

xantia_v6 wrote:My Xantia also has only the two wires, but the XM has 3!
Does your 2 wire sensor actually light the warning light if you siphon out the coolant expansion bottle though ?

I know it worked on my S2 V6 because it initially used to loose coolant through a leaking expansion bottle seam and the light would keep reminding me to top up! :?

I have never seen the warning light on this one in response to low coolant, even when the radiator sprung a leak all over the ground and the expansion bottle was visibly empty.

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by elma »

I think you either have a duff sensor which is staying constantly closed circuit or a ground fault on that 12v wire. The only weird thing is that the low warning isn't on with the sensor removed otherwise I wouldn't have thought ground fault. Does it illuminate when you first turn on the ignition? I wonder if the bulb is gone and hampering your investigation.
Also have you tested the sensor for continuity dry then wet?

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Mandrake »

The ground connection is fine, and no, the warning light does not light when the sensor is unplugged. I too would have assumed it would be configured to be fail safe (bulb lighting if the plug is removed) but apparently not!

The coolant warning light on the dashboard works fine as when I had a problem with the fan control coolant temp sensor plug recently that was making the fans run on high it was also lighting up the coolant warning light. The light also lights before starting the engine.

Yes I tried testing the sensor for continuity when wet and dry and there were no readings but its now pretty clear that its not just a passive sensor, it has circuitry in it that runs off 12v - so an ohm meter test isn't a valid test.

If I knew for certain what the wiring of this sensor is in the S1 apparently "2 wire" version I could remove the sensor and set up a test on the bench, but without that information I can only guess. As I have to drain some coolant to get the sensor out I'd rather not do that any more times than necessary, hence trying to get hold of a circuit first.

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CitroJim
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by CitroJim »

I'll do the diagrams next time I have the scanner PC fired up Simon, that’ll be in the morning..

If they don't materialise in a reasonable time then give me a nudge ;)

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Mandrake »

Much appreciated Jim. I'm determined to get to the bottom of this mystery even if it is just an anti-climax of a faulty sensor. :)

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by CitroJim »

Good, you're just like me in that respect Simon!