Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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CitroJim
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by CitroJim »

Thanks Simon for the links :D

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xantia_v6
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by xantia_v6 »

When faced with the problem of drilling out a seized bolt or stud, and the initial hole is off centre, I drill the hole successively bigger until the threads are exposed. Then because the bolt/stud is significantly weakened, it can often be persuaded to unscrew if you can find a way to grip it or push it (one of the few ways that I will use an exy-out type tool).

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CitroJim
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by CitroJim »

If Mike's method does not bear fruit for whatever reason, one way to ensure the new hole is drilled accurately is to use a drill guide...

This can be the old ABS sensor or something a little tougher you've fabricated.. Such a guide will stop the drill bit slipping around as it tries to get a start...

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Mandrake »

CitroJim wrote:If Mike's method does not bear fruit for whatever reason, one way to ensure the new hole is drilled accurately is to use a drill guide...

This can be the old ABS sensor or something a little tougher you've fabricated.. Such a guide will stop the drill bit slipping around as it tries to get a start...
Why didn't I think of that? #-o :-D

I'll re-fit the old sensor and use it's boss/sleeve as a drilling guide, assuming the outside of the flutes fit through it! (Hopefully the bolt clearance of the sleeve will be just right for the flutes as well - I'll check tonight)

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myglaren
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by myglaren »

That tap set looks excellent.
I already have one but tempted by that one as it is so pretty.

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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Mandrake »

myglaren wrote:That tap set looks excellent.
I already have one but tempted by that one as it is so pretty.
Not sure what tap set you're referring to ?

I only bought a single M6 x 1.0 tap "set" of 3 taps, which I bought from one company and the ratchet handle I got elsewhere from amazon. It has done the job perfectly though:

Image

I couldn't use the old ABS sensor as a guide as the hole is a lot bigger than the drill bit so I ended up just carefully drilling it out to 5mm by eye then tapping it. The drill seemed to naturally find the centre - probably the casting of the housing is a lot harder than the remains of the bolt so it will naturally find the centre if you're careful.

The ratchet handle was perfect for the job and actually cleared the disc easily, but even if it hadn't the ratchet and sliding handle would have allowed the job to be done. The new bolt nipped up nicely on the new thread.

The rest of the job was uneventful other than trying to plug that damn connector back in and hook it back onto its little support clip with next to no access. :evil: One of the most awkward jobs I've had to do on a Xantia by far...

Interesting thing is that even though the failure had been a complete open circuit the ABS light did not go out initially, so I double checked the resistance measurement across pins 1 and 6 on the plug and found it to be correct, so assumed that the car would have to be driven to clear the fault, (I couldn't be bothered hauling out the Lexia to clear fault codes manually) so I took it for a drive and about 20 metres down the road the ABS light went out and has stayed out since. =D>

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

The ABS system will, upon having a fault occur, not only test the replacement device to see if it is there, but will want to see that it does what it is mean to do. This will happen at about 20KM/H (IIRC), and when this happens the ABS will then 'believe' you have fitted a good replacement part. This second test caught me out once, the first time I replaced a sensor (as that ruddy light would NOT go OUT!!!). I tried to see what I had done wrong for ages, and finally gave up. Then, when I drove the car, the ABS secondary test condition was met, the light went out, and it did not have to do the secondary test until the next time an ABS sensor failed and was replaced (but this time I was aware of it).
Last edited by Hell Razor5543 on 19 Sep 2016, 11:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Mandrake »

Yep I thought it would be something like that, that's why I wasn't too concerned after the ohm meter check came back ok. I could have connected the Lexia and read/cleared the faults which also would have put the light out, but getting it out and setting it up is a lot more hassle than just driving up and down the street. :)

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CitroJim
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by CitroJim »

Excellent job Simon, well done :D

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Mandrake »

Well they say problems usually come in three's!

After getting home from a 10 minute drive tonight I noticed a big pool of liquid on the ground directly under the area of the hydraulic pump, but not LHM. I tasted a drop and sure enough it had a very strong bitter taste - coolant! #-o :(

It's hard to see exactly where the leak is but I think its this corner near the drain plug that shows signs of corrosion:

Image

It's wet most of the way along the bottom of the radiator and you can see water squelching out if you lift the radiator up and down. It seems to be dry directly under the main radiator hoses and they look OK.

This unexpected setback has sent me into a bit of a panic as not only are we a bit hard up this month for forking out for repairs, I have my mum and her partner coming over from New Zealand on the 17th to stay with us for several weeks to see the little one - and I'm the chauffeur picking them up from the airport and driving them around while they are here... #-o So getting this fixed is rather urgent.

I've never changed a radiator before so I need some advice from those who have done the job on a Xantia V6 before.

1) Where's my best bet to find a radiator - is it something that is available after market from multiple sources ? If so what brands are recommended and not recommended ? Or is it likely to only be available from Citroen ? Very roughly, what would I be expecting to pay for a decent one ?

2) How difficult is it to replace, and does the top slam panel need to be removed to get it in and out safely without damaging the new one ? It looks like if I removed the two front engine lift points (that also support the hydraulic pipes in front of the engine) that the radiator might just tilt and lift out - is this the case ?
Image
If not, is the slam panel difficult to get out ?

3) There are just the two main radiator hoses and one small hose down in the bottom left corner ? (what is the small hose for ?) Am I likely to run into problems getting them off like them splitting etc ? If so, are replacements available, either from Citroen or 3rd party ?

4) It looks like the radiator has rubber mounts at the bottom that it just sits in and there are two clips at the top - so once hoses are disconnected removal is just a matter of releasing the clips at the top and tilting and lifting ?

5) How many bleed screws are and where are they all ? I think I might have missed one last time...

6) How many litres of coolant does it take if the radiator has been completely removed ? As I can't drive to pick up coolant and going by bus is inconvenient I'm probably just going to order some coolant online for delivery when I'm ordering the radiator so it would be good to know how much is needed.

Any other advice, words of wisdom, encouragement, or better still, a step by step explanation of how to do it ? :) [-o<

BTW, the receipts that came with the car show that the radiator has already been replaced at least once before on this car...

Edit: A quick look on Mr Auto shows there are both manual and automatic versions of the radiator (perhaps the 3rd small pipe goes to the gearbox oil heat exchanger and is thus only present on the auto version?) and of the automatic types they have NRF in stock for £138, or Nissens for £173, which is currently out of stock:

http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/radiato ... _g470.html

What are peoples opinions of NRF ?

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by xantia_v6 »

Mandrake wrote:
1) Where's my best bet to find a radiator - is it something that is available after market from multiple sources ? If so what brands are recommended and not recommended ? Or is it likely to only be available from Citroen ? Very roughly, what would I be expecting to pay for a decent one ?
The V6 uses the same radiator as the 2.1TD, so they are available aftermarket. I think I bought one from http://carcooling.co.uk which seemed to be good quality, but you might also look for a Nissens a;;oy radiator (perhaps a little more expensive unless you are lucky).
Mandrake wrote:
2) How difficult is it to replace, and does the top slam panel need to be removed to get it in and out safely without damaging the new one ? It looks like if I removed the two front engine lift points (that also support the hydraulic pipes in front of the engine) that the radiator might just tilt and lift out - is this the case ?
If not, is the slam panel difficult to get out ?
No need to remove the slam panel, just undo the 3 hoses and unclip the top. It pull more or less straight up. It is a bit of a tight squeeze around the pump etc, so put a piece of cardboard on the new one to avoid bending the fins.
Mandrake wrote:

3) There are just the two main radiator hoses and one small hose down in the bottom left corner ? (what is the small hose for ?) Am I likely to run into problems getting them off like them splitting etc ? If so, are replacements available, either from Citroen or 3rd party ?
The small hose is from the transmission cooler I think. I have always had no trouble with the hoses, but they might be gummed on a bit.
Mandrake wrote:
4) It looks like the radiator has rubber mounts at the bottom that it just sits in and there are two clips at the top - so once hoses are disconnected removal is just a matter of releasing the clips at the top and tilting and lifting ?
yes
Mandrake wrote:
5) How many bleed screws are and where are they all ? I think I might have missed one last time...
1 on the rad, 2 on the engine (above and below the thermostat) and one on the heater hose.
Mandrake wrote:
6) How many litres of coolant does it take if the radiator has been completely removed ? As I can't drive to pick up coolant and going by bus is inconvenient I'm probably just going to order some coolant online for delivery when I'm ordering the radiator so it would be good to know how much is needed.
I am thinking that 5 litres of concentrate is more than enough for the job. Maybe someone else can find an accurate answer.
Mandrake wrote:
BTW, the receipts that came with the car show that the radiator has already been replaced at least once before on this car...
I have never known one to go before about 12 years, so maybe an inferior part was fitted, or insufficient anti-freeze?

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Mandrake »

Thanks for the advice, that's very useful - it sounds like the job isn't as difficult as I anticipated.... at least all going well! [-o<
xantia_v6 wrote: The V6 uses the same radiator as the 2.1TD, so they are available aftermarket. I think I bought one from http://carcooling.co.uk which seemed to be good quality, but you might also look for a Nissens a;;oy radiator (perhaps a little more expensive unless you are lucky).
[...]
The small hose is from the transmission cooler I think. I have always had no trouble with the hoses, but they might be gummed on a bit.
If the small third hose is for the auto heat exchanger it may not be present on the 2.1TD version of the radiator though ?
I have never known one to go before about 12 years, so maybe an inferior part was fitted, or insufficient anti-freeze?
I've just looked through the receipts for the car for coolant related repairs:

2001 / 27560 miles - Coolant loss problem - new expansion tank fitted
2005 / 44857 miles - Leaking water pump replaced at the same time the timing belt was changed
2007 / 49215 miles - Leaking radiator replaced
2008 / 54931 miles - Leaking expansion tank replaced again
2008 / 55707 miles - "Investigate coolant loss" listed on the invoice among unrelated repairs but no steps taken to rectify it.

I bought the car in 2014 at 65000 miles, soon after I replaced the coolant expansion chamber as it was leaking again at the seam.

So the last expansion tank prior to me buying the car only lasted 10k, the original radiator lasted 10 years and 49k miles, the replacement radiator has lasted only 9 years and 29k as the car has still only done 78k miles. As I've never had to replace a radiator on any car I've owned in the past, I would have expected a radiator to last a bit longer than this... :?

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by superloopy »


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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by xantia_v6 »

The part number given in the ebay does not seem familiar,
Perhaps the small hose is also the heater connection.

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by superloopy »

Yes ... thats the one. The two references in the description 1331.PR and 1330.28 match with service.citroen. I checked.

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