Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

Moderators: RichardW, myglaren

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8197
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 328

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Mandrake »

Zelandeth wrote:Had forgotten I'd actually put the recording on my website at some point in the past (in response if I remember rightly to somebody asking what my home-made exhaust sounded like).

The link can be found Over Here.

The crack/creak can be heard just before I actually pull off.
I listened to your audio but couldn't really hear anything that sounded like a creak. Certainly nothing that sounds like what I'm hearing. This is loud and obvious even just turning the steering with the engine stopped...

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8197
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 328

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Mandrake »

It's been a while, so must be time for an update. :)

The new house is all consuming in terms of time and money, fortunately the car hasn't really needed any repairs, but with the MOT on the horizon and a litany of small jobs to be done I thought I better give the car some of the attention it deserves!

A couple of weekends ago I thought I would have a go at the cruise control, which became marginal for a while (as if there was a slight vacuum leak - it couldn't hold the speed properly) then stopped working altogether. Unfortunately I was stopped at the first hurdle! :lol: The bolt at the corner of the rubber flaps at the front of the wheel arch that needs to be removed so you can put your hand up into the area where the cruise control is, is rusted solid - despite spraying with a rust penetrant the clip on the top side broke so now it just turns around and around - I've tried holding it with vice grips and everything I can think of but can't get it to let go. I also tried a hacksaw but it's in an awkward position such that I couldn't cut it off without also cutting through the rubber. A cutting wheel on a hand held grinder to cut the head off the bolt and replace it seems to be the only solution. In an effort to get better access I tried to remove the bolt that is further back from there and it too did the same thing! [-X

At about that time (fairly late on a Sunday afternoon) it also started to rain so I had to admit defeat and go back inside, tail between my legs... :? I think next time I tackle the cruise control I will instead remove the ECU and diagnose things from that end, like I have done before - by measuring all the input signals and power to confirm they are OK, and manually powering the pump and dump valves to see what happens. From that I can get a pretty good idea of what the problem is without even going under the car. (I would have started here already if the ECU wasn't under the drivers seat on a S1! Thanks Citroen...) One thing I do know is the diaphragm is OK - checked that when I was doing another job recently.

Fast forward to the following Thursday night and I thought I would have a go at an in-situ replacement of the top o-ring on the hydraulic pump which was really starting to leak quite badly and bathing my alternator in the process... I've only ever done the seals on the Xantia hydraulic pumps (3 cars now) by completely removing the pump and doing the job in a vice, but I thought as a stop gap measure I would "JUST" replace the top o-ring for now which is the one leaking.

After completing the job 3 1/2 hours later my advice to anyone contemplating this would be - don't bother, just take the pump out and do it properly! :roll: In some ways its a much more difficult job to do it in place. It looks easier but I ran into so many complications... The engine ECU box still has to come out so you can get a spanner on the nut for the pipe, to be able to move the steel pipe out of the way enough you have to take the engine top cover off and remove the clamp that holds the inlet hose. You can't remove the bung without disconnecting the inlet hose or it will syphon your tank empty all down the front of the engine...

And that's where I really ran into some problems - despite removing the clamps I just could NOT remove the hose from either the pump or the tank end. The rubber was moulded so firmly to the shape of the spigots after 17 years that it was just not going to budge without breaking something. On the V6 you have the weird corrugated plastic pipe which goes into a 50mm joiner section of hose each end, and the nozzle of that plastic is only reinforced with copper (from memory) so it's not very strong. Pull too hard and it will break. At the pump end there is no access with the pump still in place to lever under the end of the hose to help prize it off.

In the end I ended up making use of the mysterious bung with the o-ring on the top of the hydraulic tank - with this removed the pump cannot syphon the tank empty, so I think we just figured out what it might be for! :-D

I'm pleased to report that the top o-ring is no longer leaking - it's hard to be certain whether the bottom one is leaking, there is possibly a tiny weep as it was wet to touch yesterday but the alternator is not bathed in oil any more... so hopefully it will keep going until I have renovated the garage and got myself a monster bench vice to do the job properly... :-D

Now on the agenda is swapping over the height corrector assembly and roll bar clamp, (see thread in the main Citroen area) new hand brake cables (oh joy, I've done those once before and once was enough...) sorting out some tyres/wheels, and having another attack at the cruise control...

User avatar
DHallworth
Donor 2016
Posts: 2243
Joined: 20 Nov 2005, 18:05
x 61

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by DHallworth »

That's a bugger Simon. I did the one on the XM in situ when I first got the car and it's a doddle on that. Took all of 10 minutes! That's where it becomes noticeable that the XM has a much bigger engine bay then the Xantia.

David.

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8197
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 328

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Mandrake »

Right, that's the rear height corrector sorted! =D> Not without a twist worthy of a forum update, so here goes... :)

Taken from another thread, here is the before picture:

Image

One very mucky height corrector leaking quite badly from both rubber dust boots and a suspiciously rusty looking roll bar clamp link rod...

Even though I've had the height corrector assembly RichardW gave me for nearly 2 years I hadn't actually looked very closely at it until the day I came to fit it - after removing the plastic dogbone link that was still attached to it I discovered this rather interesting repair that someone has done:

Image

Whoops! :-D It was actually quite a tight fit on the dogbone so probably would have worked, but I much prefer to have a ball joint there than a screw head as it is under considerable force trying to make it pop off, so I decided to only change the height corrector and clean and check the original linkage assembly to see how it came up.

As it turned out, apart from a little bit of surface rust in a couple of places the original linkage was absolutely fine - the ball joint was in perfect condition (not corroded away at all as it still had the original foam dust washer fitted) and both linkages are moving nice and freely. There is a wee bit of slack in the main pivot but nothing to really worry about, so after cleaning and greasing it I decided the original linkage was perfectly serviceable.

The other good news is that the hydraulic pipes are also all in perfect condition - once I cleaned the muck off them I could see the flare nuts are all in perfect condition and all came undone without any fuss with a flare nut spanner. =D> The rubber joiner for the overflow wasn't a tight fit on the new corrector so I ended up cutting off the stretched section to get a nice tight fit. Here is everything cleaned up and the "new" height corrector fitted:

Image

I also fitted a new roll bar link, dog bone, two new foam water seals, and reused the wire clip that helps hold the dog bone on: (are those original factory fit ? I've never seen one before)

Image

I'm glad I did replace the clamp rod - it looks to me like the weld was not far from failing:

Image

All in all a job well done and with no major snags along the way, and I'm happy that the height corrector shouldn't be giving me any problems in the foreseeable future. =D> :) (This was just as much preventative maintenance to ward off future problems as it was to fix the oil leak)

The car is now ready for an MOT - even though I still have the handbrake cables to fit I'm going to put it through without them as I don't think they're nearly bad enough to cause any sort of fail, then I can fit them at my leisure after the urgency of an MOT has passed...

Interesting that the new height corrector has a plastic dust cap instead of the rubber cup of the original - did they switch to plastic end caps in later years ?

I still don't know why the old one was leaking so badly - both end dust caps were full of oil (and should normally be dry) but when I peeled back the caps I couldn't see any holes or tears in the inner rubber diaphragm...I guess it will have to wait until I have time to strip it right down to find out what was wrong with it...

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8197
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 328

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Mandrake »

In for the MOT today somewhere I haven't been before and.... failed! :evil:

One of the fails is complete incompetence, the second is debatable.

I left the car with them for an hour and got a phone call to say that it had failed on the hand brake and emissions. #-o

When I got back they proceeded to tell me that the hand brake had failed as it wasn't working at all! (It says 0% efficiency on the report, whatever that means)

Now I know the hand brake cables are a bit stiff and need replacing (I have two new ones ready to fit) and the handbrake isn't quite as good as it should be, but it does still work fairly well so I immediately challenged them on this asking if they definitely tested the front wheels and not the rear wheels because the hand brake is on the front! [-X

They guy goes away and speaks to the guy who had done the test and comes back saying yes they definitely tested the front wheels. So I ask him again, what does 0% mean - does that mean the brake is not working at all ? As there is no way that I am accepting a claim that the hand brake isn't working at all when it clearly does... he then goes on to waffle about the hand brake reading needs to be at least 16% of the foot brake reading...

Anyway, because I know the cables need replacing I didn't press any further on this point - I'll fit the new cables asap then take it back for a retest. (Tricky when the weather is miserable for the next few days and I can only work outside)

The second point was that they told me that it failed on emissions. I actually didn't look very closely at the print out at first as I was going through my mind thinking what it could be as the car passed the emissions with flying colours a year ago, and since that time has had a new coil pack, plug leads and spark plugs - so there shouldn't really be anything to cause bad emissions!

He mumbled something about that it didn't fail by much and that a drive on the motorway would probably fix it... (except it had a long drive on the motorway a couple of days ago)

It wasn't until I got out to the car and looked at the reports closely that I realised they had completely stuffed up the report, see below:

Image

Image

On the first page it says emissions failed due to high CO at idle but on the second page the only thing that failed is that they tested the high speed readings at the wrong speed! :evil: In fact the readings are all absolutely perfect and almost identical to last year...So I went straight back in and asked them to show me exactly where and why it had failed the emissions...after two guys looking at it for a minute they conceded rather sheepishly that there was nothing wrong with the emissions... sigh.

Talk about nearly causing me a heart attack for no reason. Poor brake efficiency I can fix easily, but poor emissions when all the things that would normally fix it have already been done is a bit of a nightmare to diagnose, especially with a 10 day retest window...

So I'm a very unhappy camper at the moment - I'm pretty sure the hand brake should have still passed anyway and that they have tested the wrong wheels, but they deny it so I will change the cables and get it retested, and stay to watch it being tested this time... [-X

superloopy
Posts: 3305
Joined: 30 Mar 2005, 03:25

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by superloopy »

They're just a bunch of MOT incompetent shysters Simon. There's loads of them around everywhere these days. I'd take it back without fitting the cables having pointed out their emissions failure faut pax and i'm sure they can 'test' the handbrake more positively this time. I'm assuming the handbrake does actually do what its supposed to do in a competent fashion and within 5-6 clicks on the lever. One guy who tested mine pulled it up 3 clicks and immediately failed it. I had to point out Citroens recommendation that it needed a few more clicks due to a design fault to prevent the car rolling away at that level of application. I think i've got the addendum to the owners manual somewhere. Mk1 cars were supposed to receive a 'modification' of having the first three teeth on the ratchet removed. Not all did so worth checking yours although its a pretty basic fix eh!! Mine was never 'fixed' [emoji1]

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk
Last edited by superloopy on 18 Jul 2015, 15:40, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 42155
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 1238

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by CitroJim »

Dear oh dear :evil:

Simon, you have my sympathy..

Hope it's all soon resolved...

User avatar
DHallworth
Donor 2016
Posts: 2243
Joined: 20 Nov 2005, 18:05
x 61

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by DHallworth »

Where was your MOT done, Simon?

David.

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8197
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 328

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Mandrake »

Northerner wrote:They're just a bunch of MOT incompetent shysters Simon. There's loads of them around everywhere these days. I'd take it back without fitting the cables having pointed out their emissions failure faut pax and i'm sure they can 'test' the handbrake more positively this time.
Too late, I took a gamble with the weather today and fitted the new hand brake cables, and while its always an awkward PITA job it went smoothly with no real hassles, including managing to get the job finished before the rain came. =D>

Compared to my previous Xantia whose brake cables were in a real bad state (with one snapped in half and the other extremely rusty) these ones didn't look bad at all, they weren't worn through (at least externally) and moved smoothly when pushing them in and out after disconnecting them. (Albeit with no real load on them) In fact I started to wonder if nothing was wrong with them and I was wasting my time, but it turns out I wasn't.

The reason I bought the hand brake cables in anticipation in the first place is that a couple of times some time ago I have suspected the front brakes were sticking on slightly, (but could never prove it) and also the action of the hand brake has always been that it goes from loose to tight very quickly and without much travel or "stretch" - suggesting some binding/friction inside the cable.

The new cables give a much nicer handbrake action - the tension comes on smoothly and more progressively over a few clicks rather than going from completely loose to tight in a couple of clicks, which is exactly what I would expect of new cables with low internal friction.

I took it for a test drive to try some "emergency stops" using only the handbrake to get an idea of how well it stops - previously on similar tests I felt that the handbrake was quite adequate albeit with some room for improvement but I was really impressed by just how good it is now, it really does stop you rather quickly for a handbrake, giving quite a good bite. I could pull up from 50mph to stationary in well under 10 seconds with just the handbrake.

I still strongly dispute the "handbrake not working at all" claim of the tester and believe that it should have passed rather than getting "0%" - clearly it was working before and could stop the car from speed, and it also passed last year without even a comment, despite the emergency braking effectiveness of the handbrake seeming the same to me this year as it did before last years test. (I always test the handbrake stopping from speed to judge it's effectiveness)

However there is no denying that it has now gone from adequate and passable to really excellent with the new cables. :-D Considering that the original cables look more or less like new on the outside apart from a little bit of rust on the adjuster, this is quite surprising. I guess they must either be kinked or the inner sleeve is worn though, or perhaps have got some water in them.

I'm very happy with the handbrake now - there is absolutely no way they can fail it now (assuming they test the right wheels!) as I can guarantee that it will stop the car far quicker than any rear wheel hand brake could.
I'm assuming the handbrake does actually do what its supposed to do in a competent fashion and within 5-6 clicks on the lever. One guy who tested mine pulled it up 3 clicks and immediately failed it. I had to point out Citroëns recommendation that it needed a few more clicks due to a design fault to prevent the car rolling away at that level of application. I think i've got the addendum to the owners manual somewhere. Mk1 cars were supposed to receive a 'modification' of having the first three teeth on the ratchet removed. Not all did so worth checking yours although its a pretty basic fix eh!! Mine was never 'fixed' [emoji1]
I don't know if this one has had the ratchet teeth modification done or not. Being a 1997 I suspect it didn't have the problem in the first place - didn't that apply to models before 1995 ? Here is a picture of the lever pulled up to the first click:

Image

Can you tell from that whether it has the missing teeth or not ?

And here is it pulled up "tight" to where I normally would pull it, which is about 4 clicks past the first one:

Image

I set the slack for the handbrake cable adjustments to the specified 1.5mm and the "tight" position of the handbrake above is in almost exactly the same place as it was before with the old cables.

Now to book the retest and watch them like a hawk while they do so...

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8197
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 328

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Mandrake »

DHallworth wrote:Where was your MOT done, Simon?
I don't normally like to name and shame David, but it was National Tyres and Autocare in Hamilton.

The only reason I went there is I had a bit of a falling out with Citroen Glasgow (well, their telesales and MOT booking call centre anyway, the guys in the reception are fine to deal with) that revolved around me being cold called by their telesales twice in the space of a week offering me half price MOT (£28 I think) - I wasn't in a position to book a time on both occasions as they phoned at inconvenient times, but I asked them if their offer was still good if I phoned them back in the next couple of weeks to which they said yes.

Then when I went to phone them, on two different occasions they denied that any such half price offer existed - the first guy had said he'd never heard of it, the second guy said it only applied if you got your previous MOT elsewhere and because I got my previous MOT from them I wasn't eligible! (Way to keep customer loyalty #-o ) When pressed he would only offer a "discount" down to £45, which was the un-discounted price they charged last year! [-X

The second guy was really quite rude and basically told me I was lying when I said I'd been called twice and offered the half price deal so I told him where to stick it and hung up the phone. :rofl2: So that's why I went somewhere else that was actually doing an MOT for £27.

I got tyres for the previous Xantia from National in Motherwell and despite having some troubles getting the wheels balanced (who doesn't have trouble balancing these centerless rims these days :? ) they were pretty good to deal with - so I thought I'd try them, only to find that branch doesn't do MOT's and the next nearest one that does is Hamilton.

One thing is for sure, I won't be returning once I have this MOT... :roll:

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 42155
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 1238

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by CitroJim »

To have got 0% on the handbrake test the MOT person must have tested on the back wheels...

User avatar
DHallworth
Donor 2016
Posts: 2243
Joined: 20 Nov 2005, 18:05
x 61

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by DHallworth »

My thoughts exactly, Jim!

User avatar
Stickyfinger
Donor 2016
Posts: 10005
Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 22:05
x 734

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by Stickyfinger »

Imagine how hard be was pulling on those cables :(

lexi
Donor 2020
Posts: 2785
Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 17:51
x 115

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by lexi »

It is the usual slack testing and also not wanting to pass the vehicle to get some sales and work.

You have let them know you 'aint no mug and that you understand the readings and all the workings of your car. Once you have done that ,throw in a joke about not wanting to complain to Vosa, as it would "inconvenience" them somewhat :-D. It will give them the message in future to rev your car on the emissions test to pass it.........rather than let it fail as they seem to have done. They can .......and do, pull a few tricks on the machine when testing to get them to pass.

It is always a nightmare going to a strange or new MOT station. Sympathies there Simon. Like a shot in the dark. Yes , if it's a pass, it should be a pass anywhere. In reality, it doesn't work out like that and it is hassle to prove that it should. No wonder us older car owners celebrate Mot's like you were getting some afternoon delight with the Mrs :lol:

superloopy
Posts: 3305
Joined: 30 Mar 2005, 03:25

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 blog

Post by superloopy »

I think Simons problem with the emissions was that they DID overrev it ... and then failed it! It'll sail through a second time, they'll be too embarrassed to do otherwise.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk