Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.
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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Unread post by Mandrake »

Replacing the front discs and pads on the Xantia at the moment (which are completely gubbed due to rust, with whole strips of disc material delaminated at the edge :( )

Does anyone know the torque figures for the caliper slide pin bolts for the front brakes on the Xantia V6, and also the caliper carrier bolts that bolt the carrier into the hub ?

I was certain I had these figures recorded in the notes in my phone when I started the job but they're not there and I can't find them in this thread either! :( (Also a google search isn't bringing up any thing concrete and V6 specific)

Either I winged it last time or misplaced the figures after doing the work! #-o I'm still cursing Citroen for blocking access to basic data like this on service box for us plebs who need to look something up once a year at most.
Simon

2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1978 CX 2400
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Unread post by Stickyfinger »

.
Last edited by Stickyfinger on 08 Jul 2024, 18:58, edited 1 time in total.
Alasdair
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Unread post by Stickyfinger »

Brackets @ 105Nm
Slide Bolts @ 50Nm

(source: Citroen official workshop books)
Alasdair
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Unread post by Mandrake »

Stickyfinger wrote: 08 Jul 2024, 18:58 Brackets @ 105Nm
Slide Bolts @ 50Nm

(source: Citroen official workshop books)
Thank you! =D>

I've had to abort the work tonight as I started way too late (came home early from work thinking I would have enough time, but no chance) and realised I was also missing a couple of other things I need to do the job properly so will resume on Friday better prepared, which is the next predicted spot of good weather! :roll: (But also a day I was already off work so good timing)
Simon

2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1978 CX 2400
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Unread post by Mandrake »

Still really struggling with the oil sump issue. :(

The local garage that I normally use are not interested in attempting a repair to the oil pan (probably worried about bounces) and after having another look online just to double check there are just none available anywhere even second hand.

If I remove the oil sump myself does anyone know somewhere I could send it for proper repair ? (grind, weld, repaint etc)

The car is at an age now now where if I can't get this sump pan repaired (and replacement doesn't seem an option) the car will be going off the road for good as the number of repairs and problems recently have been stacking up to the point where I don't have the time and resources to keep it going.

Every spring/summer I seem to have a long list of repairs that need doing for the MOT then the car hardly gets used and some new problem happens a few months later that puts it off the road for several months (due to lack of time and good weather to attack the problem) so it has hardly been used the last couple of years. :(
Simon

2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1978 CX 2400
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Unread post by Stickyfinger »

Type . "welding services in North Lanarkshire" into Google.. loads of welders come up.

Or call a local Welding Supplies company and ask them for some recommendations.

Or...take the sump (clean) to some local body shops and wave a £20 note in the air
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Unread post by Mandrake »

Right, I've come to a decision that it's time to move the Xantia on. :(

I had been thinking about doing so next year anyway (so that we could get a car for Sara if she gets her license) and was hoping to get one last year out of it but I'm going to throw in the towel and move on.

I've just been out to try to do the front brakes (which I already bought new discs and pads for) and discovered that the top calliper slide bolts are completely rounded. Not rounded by me as I haven't put a socket on them yet, but rounded by rust.

When I wire brushed it to try to reveal the hex there is just nothing - it's completely smooth and round as if there was never a hex there. #-o

On it's own this wouldn't be the end of the car and I'm sure some of you are thinking "pfft! that's nothing!" but it's just the end of a long string of problems that is the final straw for me.

If anyone is wanting one of the last few functioning Xantia V6's on the road send me a PM to discuss, as I would rather it go to a welcoming home that would appreciate it than be scrapped.

I'll post some pictures tomorrow showing the good and bad, and perhaps someone with a garage and more time on their hands can get more enjoyment out of it than me because to be honest it has been a bit of a chore for the last few years now as I've got older and found it more difficult to work on cars and have got progressively busier and busier in life, and rust is making every mechanical job a chore now, like the brake work.

When I could still use it as a backup car it was worth doing and it has always been a fantastic car to drive, but now that it's banned from Glasgow city centre due to the LEZ I can't use it as a backup means of transport to work anymore so it has lost much of its utility.

I'm also getting a huge amount of flack from my other half about the time and money I spend on the car every year for so little use and she has wanted me to get rid of it for years now...

Here is a quick list of the good and bad for anyone interested to mull over, and I can go into more details later.

The Good:

Aside from the pinhole in the sump the engine is running great, (at 95k) and as far as I know, it does not have leaky cam boxes.

The longstanding issue I had with the ignition intermittently cutting out momentarily causing stalls/drops in power was finally tracked down to a new NGK coil pack that I fitted new about 7 years ago that apparently went faulty - I refitted the original Sagem one and that problem has completely gone, and the engine is performing very nicely. (I have two other spare coil packs as well)

The gearbox despite seeming like it was going to fail nearly 5 years ago seems to be running nicely now. I put this down to several factors - a couple of oil changes including some Lubeguard, (that stuff really does work on old auto boxes) cleaning the electrical connector for the gearbox ECU (it had white corrosion that may have been affecting the signals to the solenoids) and also the swap of the engine coil pack as some of the symptoms I had been pinning on the gearbox were almost certainly the momentary drops in power from the engine due to the ignition coil fault.

The suspension is all in good order, the front spheres may be getting a little low now (although they are the 3 dimple long life types) but it still rides well and rear spheres were all fitted about 2 years ago so are in great condition. The hydractive system all works fine including the solenoids.

About the only problem with the suspension is the pivot pin on the rear height corrector spring mechanism is badly worn, this causes the pivot to tilt when the suspension moves, this causes lost motion in one direction which results in the rear height being slow to adjust in the downwards direction which causes the bum of the car to ride high for a few seconds after releasing the throttle form heavy acceleration. A new pivot pin and overhaul of that linkage mechanism would see that right and it was on my to-do list but never made it the top of the list.

The electrical systems in the car are all working, all the instruments, the radio, electric windows and electric seats, with the following exceptions - I had to unplug the steering wheel controls for the radio as the cable is damaged and was randomly changing stations, and the intermittent wipe setting for the wipers occasionally does not work but it's so infrequent that I have not been able to troubleshoot it as every time I think I'm going to look for it it works fine. [-X

The air conditioning is working however it does have a quirk that it has had for years now that I can't figure out - it will not engage the compressor for about the first 3 minutes after the engine has started (the light is green but the compressor is not triggered) but will work fine after that. This is more apparent in mild weather. I thought it might be related to low gas pressure but it still did it after it was last re-gassed. Once it's going it blows very cold (evaporator temperature about 4 degrees) so doesn't seem to be low on gas. A new compressor was fitted in 2020 at significant expense when the original one failed spectacularly with a snapped shaft.

After both a leaking heater matrix AND a leaking windscreen in the last few years the it has had a new heater matrix and a new windscreen and is now leak free. When this was done all the carpets were removed, washed, the floor dried out and refitted so there is no water in the foam.

The Bad:

Rust.

Surprisingly the usual place where these rust inside the rear door shut area is NOT rusted, however the rear wheel arches are badly rusted with the rear right having a big hole and a piece that is ready to fall off. The left hand side has a lot of bubbling in the paint work. There's some bubbling on the front wheel arches as well.

Underneath the main body is not rusted due to the underseal, however the suspension chassis areas and suspension arms have a lot of surface rust as would be expected at 26 years old. As noted the brake caliper bolts are rusted such that I can't get the top ones out.

Front discs have delaminated sections at the edge that causes a lot of noise and vibration when braking at speed that won't naturally scuff out over time hence the need to fit new disks. Rear brakes seem to be working OK just need bleeding.

As a result of the leaking window and heater matrix (now fixed) moisture damaged the adhesive for the headlining so the headlining is fallen down and touches the top of my head....so it will need the headlining out and re-gluing somehow.

TIMING BELT. The timing belt is still well within its mileage but is way, WAY past is due date by many, many years and needs to be done ASAP.

Missing plastic back on the left hand wing mirror. It fell off one day and was never seen again...

Spare wheel carrier is still intact but seriously rusted out and really needs repairs or replacing.

The outer layer of the double layer exhaust pipes under the engine is eaten through in multiple places exposing the inner layer however the inner layer is not compromised so it doesn't leak. (yet)

Tyres are down to the tread limit on the outside and may fail this time.

Current MOT expires on August 21st and the car is still drivable aside from the slow oil leak from the sump pan.

I have many spare parts to go with it including:

New front pads and discs not yet fitted.

Multiple second hand coil packs.

Front right lower suspension arm (new, bought to try to fix a clonk in the front right suspension but never fitted)

Spare rear height corrector and cradle. (Cradle needs repairs)

Many other miscellaneous parts I have accumulated.

A set of four spare alloy wheels originally obtained to fit winter tyres but never used. (Condition so-so)
Last edited by Mandrake on 12 Jul 2024, 17:58, edited 1 time in total.
Simon

2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1978 CX 2400
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Unread post by NewcastleFalcon »

Right decision in my opinion Simon. It's plainly bringing you more irritation than joy and will remain niggling and useless stored away, not even serving the function of occasional longer trip use. Fine if you enjoy taking your time and pottering away fixing it over a number of years. Good luck with making it happen, and be ruthless and stick to your decision. If you dont get any takers on here put it up for auction. If it doesn't sell at auction scrap it. As I said back in 2022 following the cracked screen crisis you may be surprised with the relief if you just let it go.
Mandrake wrote: 12 Jul 2024, 17:01 Right, I've come to a decision that it's time to move the Xantia on. :(

I had been thinking about doing so next year anyway (so that we could get a car for Sara if she gets her license) and was hoping to get one last year out of it but I'm going to throw in the towel and move on.

I've just been out to try to do the front brakes (which I already bought new discs and pads for) and discovered that the top calliper slide bolts are completely rounded. Not rounded by me as I haven't put a socket on them yet, but rounded by rust.

When I wire brushed it to try to reveal the hex there is just nothing - it's completely smooth and round as if there was never a hex there. #-o

On it's own this wouldn't be the end of the car and I'm sure some of you are thinking "pfft! that's nothing!" but it's just the end of a long string of problems that is the final straw for me.

If anyone is wanting one of the last few functioning Xantia V6's on the road send me a PM to discuss, as I would rather it go to a welcoming home that would appreciate it than be scrapped.

I'll post some pictures tomorrow showing the good and bad, and perhaps someone with a garage and more time on their hands can get more enjoyment out of it than me because to be honest it has been a bit of a chore for the last few years now as I've got older and found it more difficult to work on cars and have got progressively busier and busier in life, and rust is making every mechanical job a chore now, like the brake work.

When I could still use it as a backup car it was worth doing and it has always been a fantastic car to drive, but now that it's banned from Glasgow city centre I can't use it as a backup means of transport to work anymore so it has lost much of its utility.

I'm also getting a huge amount of flack from my other half about the time and money I spend on the car every year for so little use and she has wanted me to get rid of it for years now...

Here is a quick list of the good and bad for anyone interested to mull over, and I can go into more details later.

The Good:

Aside from the pinhole in the sump the engine is running great, (at 95k) and as far as I know, it does not have leaky cam boxes.

The longstanding issue I had with the ignition intermittently cutting out momentarily causing stalls/drops in power was finally tracked down to a new NGK coil pack that I fitted new about 7 years ago that apparently went faulty - I refitted the original Sagem one and that problem has completely gone, and the engine is performing very nicely. (I have two other spare coil packs as well)

The gearbox despite seeming like it was going to fail nearly 5 years ago seems to be running nicely now. I put this down to several factors - a couple of oil changes including some Lubeguard, (that stuff really does work on old auto boxes) cleaning the electrical connector for the gearbox ECU (it had white corrosion that may have been affecting the signals to the solenoids) and also the swap of the engine coil pack as some of the symptoms I had been pinning on the gearbox were almost certainly the momentary drops in power from the engine due to the ignition coil fault.

The suspension is all in good order, the front spheres may be getting a little low now (although they are the 3 dimple long life types) but it still rides well and rear spheres were all fitted about 2 years ago so are in great condition. The hydractive system all works fine including the solenoids.

About the only problem with the suspension is the pivot pin on the rear height corrector spring mechanism is badly worn, this causes the pivot to tilt when the suspension moves, this causes lost motion in one direction which results in the rear height being slow to adjust in the downwards direction which causes the bum of the car to ride high for a few seconds after releasing the throttle form heavy acceleration. A new pivot pin and overhaul of that linkage mechanism would see that right and it was on my to-do list but never made it the top of the list.

The electrical systems in the car are all working, all the instruments, the radio, electric windows and electric seats, with the following exceptions - I had to unplug the steering wheel controls for the radio as the cable is damaged and was randomly changing stations, and the intermittent wipe setting for the wipers occasionally does not work but it's so infrequent that I have not been able to troubleshoot it as every time I think I'm going to look for it it works fine. [-X

The air conditioning is working however it does have a quirk that it has had for years now that I can't figure out - it will not engage the compressor for about the first 3 minutes after the engine has started (the light is green but the compressor is not triggered) but will work fine after that. This is more apparent in mild weather. I thought it might be related to low gas pressure but it still did it after it was last re-gassed. Once it's going it blows very cold (evaporator temperature about 4 degrees) so doesn't seem to be low on gas. A new compressor was fitted in 2020 at significant expense when the original one failed spectacularly with a snapped shaft.

After both a leaking heater matrix AND a leaking windscreen in the last few years the it has had a new heater matrix and a new windscreen and is now leak free. When this was done all the carpets were removed, washed, the floor dried out and refitted so there is no water in the foam.

The Bad:

Rust.

Surprisingly the usual place where these rust inside the rear door shut area is NOT rusted, however the rear wheel arches are badly rusted with the rear right having a big hole and a piece that is ready to fall off. The left hand side has a lot of bubbling in the paint work. There's some bubbling on the front wheel arches as well.

Underneath the main body is not rusted due to the underseal, however the suspension chassis areas and suspension arms have a lot of surface rust as would be expected at 26 years old. As noted the brake caliper bolts are rusted such that I can't get the top ones out.

Front discs have delaminated sections at the edge that causes a lot of noise and vibration when braking at speed that won't naturally scuff out over time hence the need to fit new disks. Rear brakes seem to be working OK just need bleeding.

As a result of the leaking window and heater matrix (now fixed) moisture damaged the adhesive for the headlining so the headlining is fallen down and touches the top of my head....so it will need the headlining out and re-gluing somehow.

TIMING BELT. The timing belt is still well within its mileage but is way, WAY past is due date by many, many years and needs to be done ASAP.

Missing plastic back on the left hand wing mirror. It fell off one day and was never seen again...

Spare wheel carrier is still intact but seriously rusted out and really needs repairs or replacing.

The outer layer of the double layer exhaust pipes under the engine is eaten through in multiple places exposing the inner layer however the inner layer is not compromised so it doesn't leak. (yet)

Tyres are down to the tread limit on the outside and may fail this time.

Current MOT expires on August 24th and the car is still drivable aside from the slow oil leak from the sump pan.

I have many spare parts to go with it including:

New front pads and discs not yet fitted.

Multiple second hand coil packs.

Front right lower suspension arm (new, bought to try to fix a clonk in the front right suspension but never fitted)

Spare rear height corrector and cradle. (Cradle needs repairs)

Many other miscellaneous parts I have accumulated.

A set of four spare alloy wheels originally obtained to fit winter tyres but never used. (Condition so-so)
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Michel
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Unread post by Michel »

I would be very interested in this, depending on price ( I was interested in it before you bought it). As I have no need for a car, and a wish for a project, it may be ideal.

Yes, I know you're at the other end of the country, but I travel up to Nairn more often than I'd wish these days..
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Unread post by xantia_v6 »

Regarding the brake calipers, I don't recall the top slide pin having an external hex, and I have never removed the slide pin to change pads or disks.

I hope that you find someone with the enthusiasm to get that car into a state where it's long term future is more assured.
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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Unread post by Mandrake »

Photos as promised.
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Simon

2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1978 CX 2400
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
Armidillo
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Unread post by Armidillo »

xantia_v6 wrote: 12 Jul 2024, 17:42 Regarding the brake calipers, I don't recall the top slide pin having an external hex, and I have never removed the slide pin to change pads or disks.

...
I agree - I think you'll find these pins are tightened/loosened with a hex (Allen) key or a Torx key.
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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Unread post by Mandrake »

xantia_v6 wrote: 12 Jul 2024, 17:42 Regarding the brake calipers, I don't recall the top slide pin having an external hex, and I have never removed the slide pin to change pads or disks.
Doh. #-o

So is the pin permanently attached to the calliper somehow ? It's 6 years since I last did the front brakes and I can't remember.
Armidillo wrote: 13 Jul 2024, 01:48 I agree - I think you'll find these pins are tightened/loosened with a hex (Allen) key or a Torx key.
There's no hex or torx slot in the end of the bolt. The head of the bolt is smooth and flat and the edges seem to be round...
Simon

2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1978 CX 2400
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Unread post by Mandrake »

Michel wrote: 12 Jul 2024, 17:34 I would be very interested in this, depending on price ( I was interested in it before you bought it). As I have no need for a car, and a wish for a project, it may be ideal.
I need to move the car on and preferably before the MOT runs out and the car is stuck on my driveway so I would accept a token amount to be honest especially if it was going to someone who was planning to fix it up and get it MOT'ed to use as a weekend car.

I would really hate to see it going to a scrap yard when there are so few left.
Yes, I know you're at the other end of the country, but I travel up to Nairn more often than I'd wish these days..
Logistics would be the problem. I'm in Motherwell and I'm assuming you're some 300+ miles away.

Paying someone to trailer the car that far would probably be over £400. (I was quoted £400 to trailer my Leaf to Cheltenham when it had the gearbox fault - which was one of the major reasons I decided to swap the gearbox myself on my driveway)

That means either finding someone that will do it for a favour or attempting to drive the car home yourself, which would need to be done in the next 3 weeks or so before the MOT runs out.

That's assuming you want to take the chance of driving it that far with with an oil leak. If you took a spare bottle of oil (I already have a 5 litre bottle of oil that I was going to put in after the sump was repaired) and checked the level every 50 miles or so you may be fine but that would be entirely up to you. If you had breakdown/recovery cover from the AA/Greenflag in the event that something went pear shaped it might be worth taking the chance as the cost to trailer it is far more than the value of the car...

There's a bit of annoying vibration from the front brakes when you brake hard at speed due to a couple of small strips at the edge of the disc that have delaminated as well as rust bubbles on the inner face, but they work fine for stopping so are not unsafe.

Assuming you take the car and get it home it has the following that needs to be done for its MOT (which runs out on the 21st of August) that I'm aware of:

Sump pan oil leak
Front discs and pads (I will supply those as I already have them and would have fitted them yesterday had I realised about the upper caliper pin not having a hex :roll: )
Bleed/clean/grease rear brakes.
Tyre tread on the outside edge may be marginal, probably worth chancing it to get the MOT and only replacing them if it fails.

That should get it past an MOT and have it driving nicely.

Longer term it needs the timing belt doing, ceiling headlining re-glued and something needs to be done about the rot around the rear wheel arches. I am definitely not a rust/body repair person which is why I have not attempted any kind of repair there.

The rear right wheel has a slow air leak (looses about 5 psi a month) which is not a puncture or valve stem issue but probably a leak on the rim somewhere however I have not had anything done about it as it would require reseating the tyre on the rim and there is no-one in my area who can balance centreless wheel rims. :( (also why I'm dreading the possibility it might need new tyres for the MOT when I can't get them balanced here)
Simon

2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1978 CX 2400
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
RichardW
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Unread post by RichardW »

That's a shame, Simon, but if your heart is not in it, it will be a chore.

The right rear arch will need some attention to get an MOT, but a bit of gaffer tape should do it🤣
Richard W