Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

[Mandrake]

One thing the water has damaged even though it hasn't damaged the floor - is the headlining.

That surprises me Simon as the headlining is quite a sturdy item and I always believed pretty much impervious to water with the top layer being impermeable. I've seen water from leaky sunroofs pour onto the top and run across the top without soaking through which can be very confusing as the water exits a way away from where the leak might have originated

I guess if the lining is wet for long enough then delamination, damage and a breach of the impervious layer will occur. How long do you think it was wet with condensation above it?

Before this current flooding episode the inside of the car was damp for probably a couple of years unfortunately as it rarely got driven and had both a minor heater matrix leak and a minor rain water leak which was never found - but in retrospect I suspect the original rain water leak was simply the putty blob not doing its job correctly!

The fabric started to fall in a few patches about a year ago when it was sweated up over the previous winter, then this winter it has completely fallen - the fabric looks fine but it simply doesn't "stick" to whatever is above it now, if you press it up it hangs for a second and falls back down again.

I'd be tempted to remove it completely - a surprisingly easy task - and then see about doing some repairs to it... PVA glue might fix any areas that have delaminated and a mild detergent ought to remove any straining...

You might need to do some strengthening work with contact adhesive and strips of heavy fabric to allow it to regain and hold its original form and shape...

I'm not sure what you mean by delaminated - the bit that is hanging down is the very thin final layer of fabric - it just doesn't seem to stick to the layer above it anymore. It seems like if you could remove that layer and spray down a VERY thin coat of spray glue and gently push it back into place it would stay there, but that's likely to be a nightmare of creases and misalignment.

Is there any trick to removing the headliner ? One problem I have is I don't really have a large, dry clear working area for the entire roof headliner to sit while out of the car so it's likely to get damaged.

[CitroJim]

I'm not sure what you mean by delaminated - the bit that is hanging down is the very thin final layer of fabric - it just doesn't seem to stick to the layer above it anymore. It seems like if you could remove that layer and spray down a VERY thin coat of spray glue and gently push it back into place it would stay there, but that's likely to be a nightmare of creases and misalignment.

That would work perfectly to reattach the thin decorative fabric Simon. Best if it's done out of the car I think so that it can be taken indoors to thoroughly dry out. The substrate of the headliner is made of a rigid moulded fibreboard-like material and is, as far as I can tell from seeing it edge-on, made of a number of layers pressed and glued together to form a laminated structure. Many PSA vehicles, including my AX and Saxo, use the same scheme. I've seen the fibreboard start to delaminate at the edges where damp has crept in from less than perfectly sealed tailgates.

Is there any trick to removing the headliner ? One problem I have is I don't really have a large, dry clear working area for the entire roof headliner to sit while out of the car so it's likely to get damaged.

No trick, just remove the interior lights, coat hooks and handles above the doors, remove the sun visors, remove the trim around the sunroof aperture - it just pushes on - remove the top trims on the B and C pillars, remove the A pillar trims, pull all the door rubbers down to expose the edges of the liner above the door shuts and carefully release it at the rear where it is lightly bonded to the roof just above the tailgate opening. It will then slide out through the tailgate aperture. I'd advise an assistant will be useful here...

It does not take long. About as long as it took me to describe it! Choose a nice dry day and pop it indoors to dry and be worked on at your leisure... Unlikely to get damaged out of the car as it really is quite rigid...

[Stickyfinger]

To dry that foam Simon I would wedge it off the floor with a piece of wood and then use a hot air blower of some sort, hair dryer, fan heater etc to blow warm air under it. It will take a fair time but will get the job done. Then place kitchen towel on top and underneath to check it overnight!

Use these.....swap them out as often as you can.....keep the absorbent side of these pads in direct contact with as much of the foam as you can. These will draw the water from the foam.




https://www.bmstores.co.uk/products/qui ... 0pk-330686

What a great idea. I haven't seen these before but I'm guessing they're basically just a big flat nappy ?

More absorbent sheet than nappy.

The are fantastic "drip catchers" for under car use as well.

[CitroJim]

The are fantastic "drip catchers" for under car use as well.

Good plan Alasdair!

Tenuously related to the above... I keep a very large cat litter tray under my garaged car as a drip tray...

Not that it's needed as Bluebell is 100% fully garage-trained

Just goes to show pet shops can supply items of great value to car enthusiasts... The lady who served me in the pet shop when I bought my litter tray enquired as to what cat(s) I had... I so wanted to say a Jaguar or a (Ford) Puma but she didn't seem the type to appreciate a joke so was honest with her and admitted it was for a drip tray...

I ruined her day I fear... Her dismay was very obvious...

[myglaren]

I have a number of cat litter trays, temporary toolboxes for the tools needed for the job in hand.

Also had a load of cat litter to use as a desiccant.

No cats though, can't abide them.

[Mandrake]

So the Leaf went in for its "I only take it to Nissan for the battery warranty" service today and they've found quite a few problems.

I had noticed the steering started squeaking a couple of days ago and those following will remember the ball joint on the front lower left suspension arm failed due to me damaging the rubber boot when I did the gearbox job... I replaced that arm with a Delphi arm from Autodoc last March and checked the boot on the right hand one and it seemed ok.

This time the noise sounds like its coming from the right hand side and they have indeed pointed out in their walk around video that the rubber bushes in the front lower right suspension arm have split - would this be considered typical for the original factory arm at 55k miles ?

So that right lower suspension arm definitely needs replacing, but it's actually not a difficult job - I managed to do the left hand one without any trouble.

But here's the kicker - they're claiming that the ball joint on the left hand arm has enough play to fail an MOT - but that's the one I replaced 11 months ago!

To be honest I don't know whether to believe them or not - I would have thought a Delphi arm would last longer than 11 months ?? Did I buy too cheap ? Delphi about £55, OEM £126....

They have also reported that the top left strut bearing is noisy.... I'm a little skeptical about this to be honest.

I've never replaced a strut top bearing before and don't have a spring clamp - does it actually need a spring clamp ? The spring is fully extended and limp when you disconnect the bottom arm and it's possible to withdraw the driveshaft from the hub without disconnecting the hub from the spring strut assembly so the driveshaft doesn't need to come out of the gearbox either.

I don't know whether to tackle this job myself or whether I'm getting in too deep, as I have no experience with strut top bearing replacements, especially given the Xantia is partially in bits at the moment...

[RichardW]

They're a main dealer. They're fishing for overpriced work. Politely decline. Get it fixed elsewhere (or DIY) if you think it needs doing. Split bushes on the arm are not necessarily an issue if there is no movement. Unlikely a ball joint has worn out in 11 months (10k miles?) it should be under warranty if it has. Strut top almost certainly needs a spring compressor - you can buy a set of windy up ones pretty cheap, but it's a fairly scary job!!

[CitroJim]

Sory to hear this Simon...

I'm 100% with Richard here...

Strut top almost certainly needs a spring compressor - you can buy a set of windy up ones pretty cheap, but it's a fairly scary job!!

Yes, it is and unless you fancy going for a Darwin award I strongly suggest a good quality set... I've a set of Sykes Pickavant ones and even they're not fully scare-proof but fine if used with the due care they demand...

Do it in the open with the spring pointing well away from you so if it does decide to make a bid for freedom...

Apart from that, strut top bearings are easy... How they could tell they were noisy is a long stretch of the imagination though... It's usually play seen when the MoT shaker is applied...

My last lot to raise an advisory was on my erstwhile AX... Fair call. I saw it... Water had got to them and corroded them enough to make them rough and playful...

[Zelandeth]

Anything which involves suspension springs is something I just take to a garage. Even with a good set of spring compressors and a ratchet strap for good measure I never trust it not to launch itself into low earth orbit through my head.

Still remember when I was young and stupid, removing a rear wishbone from a Nissan Sunny in a scrap yard without the right tools. Car was helpfully already on its side, so we basically removed everything save the last bolt, made sure nobody was down range, then belted the last bolt out with a hammer.

There was a god almighty bang, huge cloud of dust, and the wishbone embedded itself in the ground about 75' away. We never found the spring.

Even though we'd made sure to be absolutely not in the line of fire at any point (as we knew there was a lot of tension still on the spring), the demonstration of the sheer amount of energy stored in there even with the suspension at full extension was enough to put me off ever messing with springs again unless I had absolutely zero alternative.

The thing which similarly scares me half to death is people casually messing about with spring brake canisters on HGVs using cheap caging tools...or casually going after the canisters on restoration projects which have clearly nearly rusted through when they're trying to remove them. The spring in those things is what provides the braking force sufficient to stop a bus, truck, whatever (the air actually holds the brakes *off*), that's a lot of spring. That's smaller than a coffe mug.

[myglaren]

I had a Renault 14 with a broken front spring. They changed it at the MOT place and said it was at the limit of what they would tough, and pointed to a hole between two of their units, in the wall and about 20'~25' high.
A Volvo spring had broken out of the clamps, sailed through the wall and landed on a car in the MOT bay, cost them quite a bit to fix and scared the mechanic away from suspension springs for quite a while.
The Volvo spring was only slightly longer than the Renault one.

[CitroJim]

Anything which involves suspension springs is something I just take to a garage. Even with a good set of spring compressors and a ratchet strap for good measure I never trust it not to launch itself into low earth orbit through my head.

After your scrapyard experience Zel, I can understand that... Generally, if you don't want to involve a garage, I'm always on hand to do the necessary if it's within my ability remit...

I had a Renault 14 with a broken front spring. They changed it at the MOT place and said it was at the limit of what they would tough, and pointed to a hole between two of their units, in the wall and about 20'~25' high.

Gosh

The thing which similarly scares me half to death is people casually messing about with spring brake canisters on HGVs using cheap caging tools...or casually going after the canisters on restoration projects which have clearly nearly rusted through when they're trying to remove them. The spring in those things is what provides the braking force sufficient to stop a bus, truck, whatever (the air actually holds the brakes *off*), that's a lot of spring. That's smaller than a coffe mug.

Yes, it's scary what silly people will do... No idea... Even the springs in one of my clocks can be a lethal missile if not treated with care.

Another lethal spring was that in the Triumph motorcycle Sprung Hub... The tools to properly service it are of large proportions and I believe many people have been maimed and killed by them over the years in trying to work on them with inadequate tools/knowledge.

From Wikipedia

The Triumph sprung hub is a motorcycle suspension unit contained within a rear wheel hub. It was designed by Triumph engineer Edward Turner to give Triumph's existing rigid frames the option of rear suspension. It was one of the first motorcycle components to have a safety warning cast into its housing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_sprung_hub

[RichardW]

Funnily enough....

[Mandrake]

So, as of yesterday afternoon the carpets are back in the Xantia!

After a couple of weeks of very heavy rain with no drips inside I was satisfied the big silicone blob I added under the scuttle to replace the missing putty blob was doing it's job diverting the water dribble away from the vent... so the diagnosis of the source of the leak was correct. It really does seem like a design flaw that was fixed in manufacturing with a putty blob! Very French!

The carpets themselves needed some mould spray on the foam on the underneath in places and then got hosed down thoroughly outside - which in hindsight was a bit dumb in winter because I was unable to dry them outside. In the end it took nearly 3 weeks of dehumidifier action in the back porch to get them fully dried, and I dread to think what that cost in ££ but they came out very well.

The water in the foam under the rubber mat in the footwell was removed using flat doggy litter pads similar to those recommended earlier in the thread - thumbs up for that recommendation. It did take a long time though, nearly 3 weeks with the pad changed every couple of days but it did the trick whereas propping it up and trying to dry it with the dehumidifier didn't work as the weather is too cold.

The car got a bit of use last night and seems to be working well, however I have noticed a couple of oil leaks... The sump is weeping more than it has in the past and is probably going to need resealing - not a job I have any experience with.

There is also quite a bit of oil dripping off the bottom of the accumulator sphere - I've not had a chance to remove the air filter to see where that is leaking from though.

We might be taking the Xantia down to St Annes / Blackpool area on the 10th, whether I take the Leaf or Xantia is still a coin flip at the moment.

We took the Leaf last time and it was a bit of a nightmare finding charging to be honest due to lack of chargers where I need them, too many people wanting to use them, and some being out of order, and at 200 miles it was 3 charging stops, an overheating battery and reduced power by the time we got there. The 30kWh Leaf is definitely not well suited to long journeys without battery cooling!

On the other hand the Xantia has a non-working radio at the moment (when the ignition is on the security light on the radio still flashes suggesting it the switched 12v is not reaching the radio, but I don't know which fuse is for the radio) engine and hydraulic oil drips, a possible developing exhaust leak, and hasn't been on a trip this far from home for a long, long time and has not been used much the last couple of years so I'm a little bit worried about how it would handle a long trip away from home.

I also need to check to see if there are any low emissions zones in or near Blackpool! The one in Glasgow kicks in on June 1st and I will no longer be able to drive the Xantia into Glasgow after that.

[CitroJim]

Good to hear the Xantia is now dry Simon

I'm shocked at the Leaf being unsuitable for a long trip due to an overheating battery

The sump is not such a bad job. Use the same stuff as you would on the camboxes - Loctite 5910.

As for the LHM drip from the accumulator sphere, this may be from the pressure regulator itself. Slip off the pressure regulator top support bracket/plate and see if the pressure regulator is wet with LHM underneath the the plate... I've had two V6 regulators leak here due to the failure of the O ring on the round plug the pressure control spring sits on. It's not an easy DIY job to do. Best to pack it off to Pleiades and have them do it and re-calibrate it at the same time... By now its cut-in and cut-out pressures are very likely to be out of spec.

If you are lucky, the leak will simply be down to perished rubber on the pressure regulator return pipe where the hydractive valve leakoff tees into it.

Fingers crossed!

With a good check-over to ensure all that needs to be good is good, I'd have no fear about using any Xantia on a long run...

[NewcastleFalcon]

I'm shocked at the Leaf being unsuitable for a long trip due to an overheating battery

Reasonably bog standard (no battery enhancements) 30kWh Leaf did manage the 10,000 miles Goodwood to Southern Siberia in the Mongol Rally in 2017 driven by the couple from Aberdeen who are attempting a pole to pole in a Nissan Ayria, reported widely on the news today and in our own FCF Electric News here...

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Neil